Talk:Diagnosis of HIV/AIDS

Diagnosis of HIV/AIDS received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

HIV test follows the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (plurals) for an article about the many different tests used to detect HIV. This article is organised around the three main types of test; antibody, antigen and RNA and attempts to present the approved uses and limitations of each type of test in accordance with the neutral point of view policy.

The following links currently redirect to HIV test: AIDS test, AIDS testing, HIV testing, OraQuick and P24 antigen test

Sci guy 14:37, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

As HIV testing has been merged with HIV test, can this talk page now be refactored?

Sci guy 03:57, 20 Mar 2005 (UTC)

As this page has been listed for peer review it is NOT a good candidate for merging.

I suggest we fix the problems with this page first.

Specifically this page could be used to agree on the purpose and content of an entry called HIV test (- User:203.217.28.12)

Wikipedia doesn't need separate articles on HIV test and HIV testing. One article will suffice for both noun and gerund. - Nunh-huh 14:31, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

HIV testing is a widely used term as part of a program to encourage people at risk of HIV to see if they are infected. It use different algorithms to blood screening and involves different issues such as confidentiality and counselling.

HIV test is a page listed for peer review. Currently it includes many details and tests of no relevance to HIV testing. Also HIV test has much out of date material.

Would you agree to solve the problems with HIV test with individual listings for each group of tests? Say Antibody, antigen and nucleic acid?(- User:203.217.28.12)

Exactly what problems do you refer to? In any case, this all should be discussed in a single article rather than fragmenting it all over the place. - Nunh-huh 14:59, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

invalid template?

the following template is present in the source:

Conference reference | Author=C B Hare, B L Pappalardo, M P Busch, B Phelps, S S Alexander, C Ramstead, J A Levy, F M Hecht | Title=Negative HIV antibody test results among individuals treated with antiretroviral therapy (ART) during acute/early infection | Booktitle= The XV International AIDS Conference | Year=2004 | Pages=Abstract no. MoPeB3107

it gives the following output:

{{cite conference}}: Empty citation (help)

anybody up to fix that? (clem 17:32, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC))

It now uses "cite conference". Guy Harris 17:31, 28 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Interpreting Test Results Section in Dispute

I think the following sentence from the "Interpreting Test Results" section is clearly biased and violates NPOV:

Such a faulty methodology has had extremely serious consequences, i.e. the world-wide use of HIV-antibody tests, Elisa and Western Blot, which dangerously lack specificity, as demonstrated in 1993 by Papadopulos et al. Papadopulos-Eleopulos, E., Turner, V. F. & Papadimitriou, J. M. (1993)

This methodology is only described as "faulty" by a miniscule number of people (i.e. AIDS dissidents/denialists). See http://www.avert.org/evidence.htm for a discussion on how the Perth Group's (i.e. Papadopulos) conditions for virus isolation are deemed unnecessary by almost all virologists.

How about you await a response here before slapping a {{NPOV}} tag on the article? JFW | T@lk 02:33, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I don't know...saying tests with specificity of >98% "dangerously" lack specificity is a bad enough misrepresentation of the facts as to merit an NPOV or a fix. I've done the latter, with a good recent (2005) reference replacing the denialist one from 1993. - Nunh-huh 03:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Anonymous blanking

These edits didn't include any comments and only removed text. I agree that the article was (is) a bit wordy, but perhaps a shorter version of the removed text would be better than its wholesale removal. Please comment here regarding those edits. (Otherwise, I'll just revert them.) The Rod (☎ Smith) 18:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. I edited out statements that were clearly AIDS denialists' misrepresentation of facts. I am new to Wikipedia and am just learning my way around. If this article needs to include that AIDS denialist point of view, perhaps it could be confined to an "alternate theories" section. Let me know your thoughts. --71.125.174.92 03:18, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Those were actually reasonable edits, but you made them without edit summaries, which (along with the fact you are using an IP address rather than a nickname) leads to suspicion. It would be good if you set up a name to edit under (not necessary, but it's in fact more anonymous than an IP, and helps to develop a metric of trust), and it's important to use edit summaries when removing information (e.g. "removing misleading argumentation about sensitivity") etc. Remember, people who know nothing about a subject may be checking such edits (to be sure they aren't vandalism) so it's good to explain it to them simply. In cases where it's necessary to remove a lot of material, it may even be a good idea to make a brief explanation (which can cover sever edits) on the talk page (i.e., here.) - Nunh-huh 05:20, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, anon and Nunh-huh. (And agreed, I don't see anything compelling removed.) Thanks for the cleanup, anon. Looking forward to welcoming you formally if you register! Also, be prepared for denialist reverts. If that occurs, a short summary of denialist view near the end may become valuable, if for no other reason than to keep such POV contained. The Rod (☎ Smith) 07:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I signed up for an account...my user name is Robbieisfun. I made some small changes to the Interpreting Antibody Results section. The more I read this article, the more I come across denialist pseudoscience. This article may require an somewhat extensive rewrite, rather than just deleting things as I have done. --Robbieisfun 18:40, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the article was originally written by a denialist trying to make a point. We tried to get the most misleading points out, but I think you've demonstrated there's more to do. - Nunh-huh 19:02, 24 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Language improperly says AIDS and HIV are synonymous

While the HIV article and sister articles are very informative, there are a few places where the terms HIV and AIDS are used interchangeably, which is misleading and ultimately incorrect. It is the virus that causes AIDS. Because of advances in HIV treatment, I believe even the term AIDS virus is misleading because it makes an automatic connection between HIV and AIDS, whereas theorhetically, due to the advances in medicine, a person can live with the HIV virus and not develop into AIDS (which, as you know, is a syndrome that requires many factors to be met, as determined by the CDC). Thanks. Bsheppard 03:04, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Criticisms

Criticisms have been made by orthodox researchers. In fact, virtually all the Perth group's papers in their references are in the orthodox literature! So, apparently it's not just "dissidents" criticising the tests. 198.59.188.232 23:28, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Darin. (Isn't it strange how your user page says you have "retired", yet you keep on making anonymous edits?) Just because some of the Perth Group's papers have been published in (usually obscure) mainstream journals, that doesn't mean that the editors of those journals agree with them. Do you know of any non-dissident scientists who have explicitly criticised modern HIV antibody tests? If not then I think we should revert to my wording. Trezatium 19:02, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I *HAVE* retired from making positive contributions to the Wikipedia. I feel a moral obligation, however, to respond to the misinformation and claptrap that continues to be peddled at a few particular articles here (specifically AIDS reappraisal and HIV test). Read the 1993 Perth paper. (Obviously you haven't. Or you're too just too flat out stupid to understand it.) BTW, their paper was published in Nature Bio/technology, which is one of the most prestigious journals, about as far from "obscure" as you can get!! Another piece of evidence that tells me you haven't read it or have no clue about the biology world. And its editor at the time was Harvey Bialy, who agrees with their major thrust of their criticisms of the WB test. They [Perth] make direct quotes of ORTHODOX researchers. Almost every reference and quote they make is to the ORTHODOX literature. A few examples:

"In half of the cases in which a subject had a positive p24 test, the subject later had a negative test without taking any medications that would be expected to affect p24 antigen levels...the test is clinically erratic and should be interpreted very cautiously.", Todak, G., Klein, E., Lange, M. et al. 1991. A clinical appraisal of the p24 Antigen test, p326. In: Vol. I, Abstracts VII International Conference on AIDS, Florence.

"On the basis of our positive Western Blot data, it appears that parenteral drug users may have been exposed to HTLV-III or a related virus as early as 1971. An alternative but equally viable explanation is that the HTLV-III seropositivity detected in these specimens represents false positive or non-specific reactions.", Jaffe, J.H., Moore, J.D., Cone, E.J. et al. 1986. HTLV-III Seropositivity in 1971-1972 Parenteral Drug Abusers-A case of false Positives or Evidence of Viral Exposure? NEJM 314:1387-1388.

"To culture is to disturb.", Meyerhans, A., Cheynier, R., Albert, J. et al. 1989. Temporal Fluctuations in HIV quasispecies in vivo are not reflected by sequential HIV isolations. Cell 58:901-910.

This is in addition to many indirect quotes and relaying of results. This all comes from the ORTHODOX literature itself. I would LOVE to see your retort to these people, as these are NOT "denialists". These people are supposedly on "your side". Other examples (not from Perth):

"Problems may be encountered when an HIV Western Blot is done on someone at no identifiable risk of infection. For example, recent studies of blood donors in whom no risk of HIV infection could be ascertained, who were nonreactive on the ELISA, and for whom all other tests for HIV were negative, revealed that 20% to 40% might have an indeterminate Western Blot...", and ""Notable causes of false positive reactions have been antibodies that sometimes occur in multiparous women and in multiply transfused patients. Likewise, antibodies to proteins of other viruses have been reported to cross react with HIV determinants. False positive HIV ELISA's also have been observed recently in persons who received vaccines for influenza and hepatitis B virus.", Proffitt MR & Yen Lieberman B (1993, June). Laboratory diagnosis of HIV infection. Infectious Disease Clinics of North America 7(2).; 203-215.

"Our results document a fourth source of false positive HIV-1 Western Blot results, which is the reproducible but nonspecific reactivity to (proteins from HIV)... Preliminary studies suggest that the basis for this cross reactivity with HIV-1 gp 41 proteins may be infection by paramyxoviruses, carbohydrate antibodies, or autoantibodies against cellular proteins.", # Sayre KR, Dodd RY, Tegtemeier G et al. (1996). False positive HIV-1 Western Bloy tests in noninfected blood donors. Transfusion 36; 45-52.

Montagnier's group concluded that gp 41 "may be due to contamination of the virus by cellular actin which was present...in all the cell extracts", Barre-Sinoussi F, Chermann JC, Rey F, Montagnier L, et al. (1983). Isolation of a T-lymphotrtophic retrovirus from a patient at risk for AIDS. Science 220: 868-871.

"Circulating levels of plasma virus determined by (quantitative) PCR correlated with, but exceeded by an average of 60,000-fold, numbers of infectious HIV-1 that were determined by quantitative culture of identical portions of plasma... Total virions have been reported (in other studies) to exceed culturable infectious units by factors of 1000 to 10,000,000, ratios similar to those we observed in plasma.", Piatak M, Saag MS, Yang LC, et al. (1993). High levels of HIV-1 in plasma during all stages of infection determined by quantitative competitive PCR. Science 259; 1749-1754.

I could go on and on. But it's clear you haven't familiarised yourself with the orthodox literature, let alone "denialist" literature. 198.59.188.232 06:55, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]