Talk:Tokumei Sentai Go-Busters

Official title

Note: There is no official English language title yet because the scans that are going around are from a trade catalog and are not reliable sources.—Ryulong (竜龙) 02:52, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

If you have what you think is a reliable source, post it here so we can evaluate it.—Ryulong (竜龙) 03:06, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Said scans include the logo, which says GO-BUSTERS in English. That's as official as it gets, regardless of the source. You're setting double standards Ryulong. Either use the English name, or this article shouldn't exist, as there's been no new info since we last discussed this. Digifiend (talk) 10:27, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

The scans that are out right now are not reliable sources because they do not come from a source that is available to the general public in Japan. It does not matter if it is an official source. We still cannot use it because it is not a reliable source that can be fact checked by anyone that is not an otaku from 2chan.

And I am not setting any double standards. This article is at a title that can be confirmed by reliable sources, namely Toei's trademark registrations on the title which we have transliterated per the guidelines set out by the English Wikipedia. We will wait for when the press for Gōbasutāzu begins in the hobby and children's magazines such as Hyper Hobby, Uchusen, Televi-Kun, and Televi Magazine. Until then, the page will have to remain at this title until we get a clear shot of the logo in an official source that is freely available to the Japanese public that isn't the otaku who post to 2chan or the other boards.—Ryulong (竜龙) 10:53, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

The fact that the scans are not available to the general public should give more weight to it being reliable, not less. Your logic is flawed Ryulong. I'm with Digifiend on this. If the logo is from an official source, then it is a reliable source. Shielded117 (talk) 21:17, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

No. That does not mean the source is reliable per the English Wikipedia's standards. I know very well that the information is true, but we cannot confirm it outside of that one image. The information has to come from reliable third-party sources. A proprietary trade catalog released by Bandai at a trade show where one person in the fan community has gone to does not pass these requirements. We can wait a month for the information to come out in sources that are reliable. As we have no way of even confirming the name of the publication (because it has never been published and we only have access to it because of an otaku in Japan), this image cannot be used as a source and we will wait a month for the hobby and kiddie magazines to update, or when the official website goes up.—Ryulong (竜龙) 21:38, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

And, I have been informed that WP:COMMONNAME governs this, and as there is no common name out there for this yet because it has not been officially confirmed by Bandai. All we have for reliable sources are the trademark applications and allegedly this one image, and we should not base everything on this one image. We will be moving this once more reliable sources come out. I simply do not think it should be done right now because we only have one scan from something that cannot be independently verified (the scans from actual magazines can be verified because you or I can buy it and have it in front of us).—Ryulong (竜龙) 22:01, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

And finally, there are no mainstream media sources that report this information. I might be wrong about the image not being a reliable source, but even if we do accept that it is reliable it is still not the most common name yet.—Ryulong (竜龙) 22:21, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Stop being a douche bag Ryulong. You are not the ruler of toku. Go-Busters is official. Your idiotic rantings aside, everyone knows what it's called. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.59.224.143 (talk) 21:30, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Look dude, we (especially Ryulong) know that it in fact is called Go-busters. But we just can't use it just yet, because it has only appeared in a toy catalougue. We gotta wait till it pops up in a reliable magazine (ie. Hyper Hobby or Uchusen) or wait for the Toei and/or the Tv-Asahi web site, it'll pop-up soon. So, I know its a bothersome, but we just have to wait until further notice we are going to use Go-busters eventually. ~Marvelous2011~ ( ★ AlienX2009 ★ ) 23:42, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. We know it's going to be "Go-Busters" but no reliable sources call it that yet. I am trying to set a standard for these pages and the industry catalog does not pass Wikipedia's standards because their content cannot be independently verified. I am well aware that it is official. It is just something we cannot use on Wikipedia. You can wait two weeks for the actual magazines to come out and we will have a better look at the logo, and you just have to deal with this title for the time being.—Ryulong (竜龙) 00:01, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Protection

Right - I'll give the others 48 hours to find a source for Go-Busters - and have protected the page for the time being. If no sources are forthcoming I will revert to semi-protection until sources can be found. Casliber (talk · contribs) 01:32, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Ack. You've fully protected it right after some IP added "Go-Busters" to the page.—Ryulong (竜龙) 01:33, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't the official web site come up somewhere around mid-January? Its usually like at least a month before a series premieres. Actually, can't we add the fact that the name Go-busters" were used in pre-promotional materials? ~Marvelous2011~ ( ★ AlienX2009 ★ ) 01:39, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

No, we cannot say that name appeared in "pre-promotional materials" because there is no such thing. There has been no such promotional material out there, because the industry catalog is not a reliable source. But we can probably expect the information to show up in the February 2012 Televi-Kun/Televi Magazine issues which are out on December 27. The January 2012 issues are out now, too. And they seem to focus on Meteor, but we can do all the Meteor stuff on Sunday.—Ryulong (竜龙) 01:43, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Oh the "pre-" part was a mistake. I tried to change something else, but yeah. ~Marvelous2011~ ( ★ AlienX2009 ★ ) 01:47, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Okay, have rejigged protection to semi as per original request. Can probably be lifted once more information arises in mid-Jan. I am happy to be alerted at that time, or for another admin to unprotect at that time. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:23, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, someone went to my talk page to show me this photograph of the February Televi-Kun. However, that's still not out for sale for another 5 days.—Ryulong (竜龙) 07:47, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Probably came from a subscriber, they get their copies early. That source is acceptable right? I see no need to wait five days (if the source will be good enough then, surely it's good enough now?), so please remove the protection. Digifiend (talk) 21:16, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Actually, TV-Kun magazines come out pretty early depending on the location or stores. ~Marvelous2011~ ( ★ AlienX2009 ★ ) 21:29, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, I would prefer if we wait a few more days until the known actual release date of the magazine issue as per this.—Ryulong (竜龙) 21:40, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Production background

Some of the articles from the more adult fan oriented magazines mention stuff along the lines of this series being a reboot of sorts for Sentai. That it's akin to Goranger and that it's a refresh for the franchise after an anniversary series and will bring about interesting changes to the formula. should this be mentioned? Of course it can all be sourced, but it's rather interesting background information. 69.132.11.135 (talk) 19:56, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, if you can get some exact quotes from the adult-oriented magazines, we might be able to incorporate it.—Ryulong (竜龙) 20:26, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Now that the new Hyper Hobby issue is officially out:

ゴーバスターズは、”バスターギア”と呼ばれる専用の秘密メカを装備し、諜報活動、そして戦いに赴く。そして、ゴーバスターズのスーツは、サングラスや肩ベルトなど、スパイをモチーフに作られている。 そう、「特命戦隊ゴーバスターズ」のテーマのひとつはスパイアクション。スーパー戦隊シリーズ第１作「秘密戦隊ゴレンジャー」も、スパイ戦をメインにした物語であったことから、 「ゴーバスターズ」は新たなスーパー戦隊の第１作目、という意味合いもあるのかもしれない。

This is the text. It looks at the new gear for the team and talks about it being spy themed, then fact that Go-Busters and Gorenger are both spy themed Sentai shows and just as Gorenger was the beginning for the franchise, Go-Busters is the first series as the new beginning for the franchise. 69.132.11.135 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:53, 4 January 2012 (UTC).

Plot section

It should be noted that the first sentence in the plot outline is actually kind of a fumble grammatically. I think "The urban life of the city..." along with "runs on a major power source..." would be more accurate. Otherwise it just looks a bit like poorly translated lines into English. Also, "created selected a group of elite heroes..." should lose one of those two verbs. Finally, the sentence, "along with their robotic partners the Buddyloids, to combat..." doesn't need the word "to". I'd update it myself, but I've only just registered. Garth (ガース) (talk) 07:07, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that was written by Youngsevon who I believe is someone we banned a while ago. I've completely rewritten it. His edits will never be part of this or any other article, again.—Ryulong (竜龙) 10:12, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Buddyloids?

Never seen it spelt Buddyloids anywhere else, isn't it supposed to be Buddyroids? Roids as in droids? What was the source for the L spelling? Digifiend (talk) 20:15, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Really, you havent? ~Switch On 2012~ ( ★ AlienX2009 ★ ) 20:24, 5 February 2012 (UTC)

Buddyroids certainly makes a hell of a lot more sense — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.27.76 (talk) 19:20, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Offcial japanese translations don't tend to have a hell of a lot more sense. ~Switch On 2012~ ( ★ AlienX2009 ★ ) 21:44, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The show itself has on-screen representations of the names. So far we have Megazord, the member names, Buglars, and... wait for it... Buddy Roids. This is as per episode three. (When Gorisaki is filling up his EX tank). Pretty sure that trumps t-shirts. 203.87.201.38 (talk) 05:35, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

That's right, the image is here, with a close-up here. --MrThermomanPreacher (talk) 18:57, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Print material outside of the program now exclusively uses "Buddyloid".—Ryulong (竜龙) 19:06, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Both variants should be listed as alternatives. Both official magazines and the show itself can pretty much be considered primary sources. Frumix (talk) 04:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

"Buddyloid" seems to be the preferred form, as it is more prevalent.—Ryulong (竜龙) 20:04, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Typo

The Romanization of the title of ep.33 is wrong. kasutatomu -> Kasutamu — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:0:53AA:64C:2856:448E:C543:C856 (talk) 14:14, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Final statement on Vaglass, Buddyloid, and Metaloid

"Vaglass" is quite literally used on the official TV Asahi website. I have never seen "Vagrass" in any fashion show up in any on-screen thing anywhere in the raws or in any print materials.

As is shown in one screenshot above, "BUDDY ROID" did appear on screen once, but Bandai has exclusively used "BUDDYLOID" on all printed merchandise since that one scene in what is like episode 2 or 3. Evidence as follows: sold out T-shirts, toy series page, scan from the first mini-album.

I have never seen "Metaroid" in any fashion for this series other than an explanation that if "Buddyroid" was used once, then "Metaroid" must follow. Meanwhile, I am fairly certain that "Metaloid" was shown on screen at some point much later in the series.

Changes to the status quo must have a consensus behind it and not just spiting me because I'm the big target and you hate me.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 07:01, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if it's on official Japanese merchandise or not. By that logic, we should spell Goku "Gokou" because that's what was written on official Japanese merch. What matters is what it should be translated to in English. "Buddyloid" makes no sense in English, as this is a combination of "Buddy" and "Android", thus "Buddyroid". DarknessSavior (talk) 03:16, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

We don't use "common sense," we use reliable sources. I see reliable sources above. Do you have reliable sources? Hipocrite (talk) 03:55, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I find it entirely hypocritical that Ryulong uses an official website of a Sentai series as a source but doesn't want to use an official website of a Power Rangers series as a source. Is an official website reliable or not? Make up your own mind.--124.168.240.245 (talk) 05:46, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Tokumei-Sentai-Go-Busters-Volume-1-Blu-ray/42209/

http://www.amazon.com/Tokumei-Sentai-Busters-Buddy-Chida/dp/B0073YB7GM/

http://www.jefusion.com/2012/01/go-busters-next-buddy-roid-is-t-rex.html

http://www.1999.co.jp/search_e.asp?Typ1_c=111&scope=1&urikire=0&andor=0&scope2=0&sortID=0&SFlt_f=1&SFilter=Series&itkey=Buddy+Roid+Series

http://plamoya.com/de/tokumei-sentai-gobusters-buddy-roid-series-03-usada-lettuce-p-44830.html

http://www.morphinlegacy.com/2011/12/36th-sentai-gobuster-revealed.html

How many editors do you intend to block for no reason because you were instructed to do so on the talk pages of a now penalized and blocked editor? And how often do you intend to break WP:FAITH in the process? 62.157.32.102 (talk) 06:44, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

There is a very reliable source. As MrThermomanPreacher pointed out over two years ago, Buddyroid, with an 'r', appeared in the series itself. The proof can be seen here and here. When two official sources contradict each other like this should we not default to common sense? Whymy (talk) 06:50, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

The sites linked by 62 do not appear to be official sites.

I edit primarily translating Digimon stuff, so I am rusty on the context here, but Metaloid plainly makes sense as Metal (andr)oid. If some similar -loid was introduced earlier in the series, then Buddyloid would easily make sense as a continuation of the -loid theme. Indeed, -loid is the accepted romanization in the MegaMan series, so this could also be a reference to that. Since Buddy Roid has appeared on screen, it should be a viable option for use on the wiki (but not Buddyroid, which hasn't), as would be Buddyloid. The question, then, is is "Buddyloid" a continuation of an earlier -loid concept, or named, in a vacuum, based on "android"? Honestly, I would suggest listing both "Buddy Roid" and "Buddyloid" as names for the concept, and then using "Buddyloid" throughout the coverage as per the weight of the RS.192.249.47.186 (talk) 21:04, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

First, the MegaMan example as support for "Buddyloid" doesn't really work because "Reploid" is meant to be a portmanteau of "repl(ica)" and "(andr)oid". Second, "Metaloid/Metaroid" isn't meant to be a portmanteau of "metal" and "(andr)oid"; "meta" in this case refers to the fact that all the Metaloids/Metaroids in Go-busters are brought to life using the MetaVirus. On top of that, even though the "metal" and "(andr)oid" meaning makes sense out of context, it doesn't for "buddy" and "loid", so why would the appropriate translation only make sense for one of the two? Finally, as for "Buddy Roid", it seems unnecessarily arbitrary to have two words used in the show translated differently (especially when they're both written as one word in Japanese). More likely than not, the word was split as "Buddy Roid" in the screenshot simply for aesthetic purposes, not because it was intended to actually be two words.146.95.36.237 (talk) 00:21, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Much appreciation for the crash course on Kamen Rider history. Out of curiosity, is the MetaVirus referring to the greek prefix, or to metal? As far as the appropriate romanization only making sense for one of the two, sorry to say but that's kind of par for the course with this field; for example, Kokatorimon and Akatorimon are Cockatrimon and Akatorimon in Japan, and the themed naming stops working as well once it's romanized.

As far as "Buddy Roid" is concerned -- Japanese fiction frequently writes what are clearly two English words as one katakana word, a la "ファントムガノン" (Phantom Ganon). Spaces or separation marks are generally only provided if the reader is likely to misread the word as something combined in English, ex. "クック・オブ・ザ・ヘル" (Cook of the Hell, where without the separation marks it would not be clear that these were four words). It's totally within normal bounds for "バディロイド" to be romanized as two separate words. Regardless, what's most important is that, quite simply, that's the official name that has been used. Buddyloid has also been used; Buddyroid has not. It would be quite irresponsible and illogical of us to deign to lecture the content creator that they have misnamed their own creation, no matter how much more legible our chosen name is.192.249.47.186 (talk) 01:49, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be the easiest solutions to this seemingly important issue to insert a little explanation into the article? "Please note that while バディロイド is romanized to Badiroido, the producer of the series uses -loid." Something like that. I am sure someone can come up with something more elegant. Leave everything else as is. Very easy, and generations of anime fans would be rejoicing. Why explaining? Because the use of roid is justifiedenforced by romanization rules, because this is the english wikipedia, and because a quick google search reveals that buddyroid is much more frequently used in the web than -loid. Add to that the fact that most japanese people have no idea and no ambitions to get their romaji straight, we should avoid confusion by sticking to the official sources (as Ryulong rightfully did), but also add a tiny bit of explanation. Isnt that a proper solution everybody can be fine with and live happily ever after? Rka001 (talk) 19:57, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

The romanization is already given in the article. People may use deduction themselves. If you have reliable source which discusses the naming issue, please use it in the article. Otherwise it would be original research, no matter how trivial (which in your case is a bit of speculation too, because romanization rules you cite say '-roido', not '-roid'). Please keep in mind that the authors/owners are probably not complete ignorant of English, and if they chose '-loid', they had their reasons. Why don't you visit their website and ask for an official explanation to be published? -M.Altenmann >t 22:15, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Oh, i missed the romanization part. Then i do have no issues, and i dont think why anyone should have issues. Thank you for pointing that out. Id like however to point out that there is an extremely high chance that the authors/owners are probably completely ignorant of English. But anyway, i thought my proposed solution would be a very handy way to shut off any vandalism issue on this article. Rka001 (talk) 22:58, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware of the problems for the Japanese with /r/l/. But the difficulty is in speaking and hearing, not with writing. By the way, I suspect that you misunderstand the meaning of the term 'vandalism' in the context of wikipedia. You probably meant "revert wars". -M.Altenmann >t 00:16, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

• Comment - At the present, there is no inline citation to any reliable sources to verify which term is correct. The only citation I see given in the character section, where the buddyroids are listed, is to a red-linked Hyper Hobby. Buddyroid seems to be the most widely used by RS. Isaidnoway (talk) 19:52, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Ryulong presented the RS above for "Buddyloid" and its overwhelming wide use, compared to a single use of "Buddy Roid". "Buddyroid" does not appear to have been used in any official capacity, and WP:ENGVAR appears to instruct us to use the names a subject gives itself as that subject's name, even if that subject is bad at spelling. The sources given above should perhaps be added to the article as citations for both romanizations (and certainly, both official names should be listed), but the argument for "Buddyroid" has so far been without any official publications as basis.192.249.47.186 (talk) 16:57, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Google returns 3,330 results for loid and 20,800 results for roid. Bing returns 2,230 results for loid and 4,100 for roid. Since this article is on the English WP, MOS also says that Japanese terms should be romanized according to common usage in English-language reliable sources. In addition to the search engine results which favor roid, there is also several English language reliable sources as well to back up the usage of roid. One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine Additionally, Asian search engines Google (Japan) returns 3,020 hits for loid and 10,700 hits for roid, and Baidu has a return of 65 for loid vs. 6110 for roid. Baidu Baike also uses the term Buddyroid and TV Asahi which broadcast the Go-Busters series uses the term "android" in their character description, which is consistent with Baidu Baike's defintion of Buddy + Android. Also, the English subtitles used for all the episodes are translated as Buddyroid, as well as all the movies in that franchise. At the very least, this article should mention that Buddyroid is an alternate translation for these characters, based on the prevalence of that term being used in English and other sources. Isaidnoway (talk) 19:03, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

See WP:GHITS. I see an official source above - and it appears that ENGVAR says use official sources, no? Hipocrite (talk) 19:53, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Normally I would agree with WP:GHITS, but in this case we are talking about a rather obscure and specific word(s), so search engine results are relevant in this case. WP:ENGVAR refers to "National varieties of English", which isn't the case here. The relevant WP:MOS guideline for this article would be WP:MJ - "Japan-related articles", since we are talking about the translation of a Japanese term. The most common translation in English language sources is roid, and while material from official sources should always be considered, they shouldn't be regarded as sacrosanct. There is a plethora of toy companies that sell their "official" merchandise, but still use the English language common translation. Like I stated above, this article should at least mention that it is translated as roid in English language sources, since this is the EN WP. Isaidnoway (talk) 15:02, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

It's not a translation, however, it's a proper name, and so ENGVAR applies - actually, a subset thereof - WP:ARTCON "proper names: Use the subject's own spelling e.g. joint project of the United States Department of Defense and the Australian Defence Force." Hipocrite (talk) 15:43, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Are there official English subtitles for Go-Busters, a la Crunchyroll or something? If not, then English subtitles aren't really worth mentioning.

From looking at the history discussed around the topic, it appears that Buddyroid is not used in English localizations, but instead in (questionably legal) fan subtitles. That's not a great source to use.

As far as the google searches on "roid" go -- that does nothing to demonstrate that Buddyloid is the wrong name, and in fact, all it does is support that the official name "Buddy Roid" is worth using. I'm really unsure why there's so much of an issue about just using Buddy Roid -- I can speak from the Digimon franchise, at least, that there's a ton of stuff like "Flow' Cannon" being short for "Flower Cannon", so why couldn't "Buddy Roid" be accepted as short for "Buddy Android"? Why the particular insistence on using the unofficial Buddyroid when we have two perfectly good official terms that should satisfy both sides of the l/r debate?192.249.47.186 (talk) 22:27, 3 February 2015 (UTC)