Talk:Polymath

Organize by period

Organised polymaths into periods, approximately;

Ancient — pre 1500
Renaissance — 1500 - 1750
Classical — 1750 - 1900
Modern &mdash post 1900

The thinking being that it is easier to be a polymath at certain times. In particular the modern period polymaths and ancient polymaths appear qualitatively different from those of the Renaissance - Solipsist 16:43, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC) )

People in list

Not sure about the number of mathematician/physicists in this list. I would really rather see more diverse interests to qualify as a polymath. - Solipsist 16:47, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)

What about Umberto Eco? I guess he is a prime example for a polymath ;) --PhilipP 21:52, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Or Buckminster Fuller?! -- practically the definition of polymath.

Any chance for Daniel Kahneman? mathematics, economics, and psychology, cognitive science.

Be bold -- Solipsist 21:40, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Or Ray Kurzweil? I would support Ray Kurzweil. Seems to be branding himself as a futurologist these days, but he has had an interesting history in electronic music, speech synthesis and disability aids. -- Solipsist 21:40, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Or Alfred Korzybski for the many disciplines he researched to produce 'Science and Sanity'?

The note about women is irrelevant

Actually, Hypatia was female, so the list of polymaths no longer implies that polymaths are males. Also, it should be noted in the article, that in some time periods it was easier to be polymath.

Polymath = Renaissance Man = Uomo Universale?

Should this article be merged with renaissance man? - Fuelbottle | Talk 23:40, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Only an RM would know enough to answer the question ... and there aren't any. Seriously though, I think one might possibly get away with the overt sexism of RM within a polymath article (i.e., RM is an obsolescent type of definition of polymathy). This is worth considering, in conjunction with taking out a list of polymaths and making it free-standing. Certainly not a good idea to redirect polymath to Renaissance man. Charles Matthews 11:29, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

An anonymous user has created an article called Uomo universale (originally Uomo Universalis—I moved it). Currently that article is a very unsatisfactory stub. Maybe Renaissance man could be redirected to Uomo universale (or vice versa) and the lemma could be used to deal more specifically with the renaissance ideal of doing and learnbing as many things as possible.--Thomas Ruefner 16:46, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Newton as theologian?

Isaac Newton is identified as, among other things, a theologian. My understanding is that his theological writings were published only posthumously and had no influence. He was a unitarian in that he disbelieved in the Trinity, and I think that means he would have denied that Jesus was an incarnation of God. Did he in any way influence later unitarian thinking? Michael Hardy 18:38, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Categories?

Over at Category:Orphaned categories, we're trying to figure out what to do with Category:Polymaths. Help by those who know what this is about would be appreciated. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 23:27, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It should be in some category such as [[Category:Intellectual life]]. Charles Matthews 09:27, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've been struggling with this one too, especially that I'm responsible for some of its population. For now I've dumped it under Category:People by occupation just so not to leave it orphaned, but polymathy is hardly an occupation. Goes with prodigies, multilingual people, psychological exceptions, genius, etc. Good luck....! — Bill 11:12, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Narrow Definition

I have always been under the impression that a polymath was someone who had a working knowledge of a very extensive range of subjects, and the ability to apply that knowledge to almost any situation. Until I read the listing here about a polymath, I did not realize there was such a narrow definition. It seems that the listings of polymaths here are genuises in just a few fields. I also did not think that a polymath had to be a genuis in any field.

I'd certainly go along with you, Anonymous friend. A polymath need not be a genius or even anyone with very original ideas — although then again they do need to be very intelligent etc.... I'm also with you in that, by my own lights, some of the people discussed here are not polymaths. I like to think of polymaths as being people who have deep knowledge about very disparate disciplines: a poet/musician/songwriter/singer is not a polymath, but someone like Hedy Lamarr, who owned patents on WWII cryptographic devices that became even more important in the electronic age, might very well qualify, or at least with one or two more things thrown in, say Sanskrit and shellfish. — Bill 21:48, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

A proposed differentiation between polymath and Renaissance Man (and possibly a Universal Man) would be that a Polymath has created, or has/had demonstrated the capacity of learning necessary to create seminal works (not merely primary sources) in at least two disparate fields. Possibly would also need to demonstrate competency in at least one other field. Also seems to indicate (as stated elsewhere here) mastery of the theory/logic of multiple fields (an RM could know what is commonly known (mimicry to an extent), or have an inate grasp w/o the ability to identify or communicate the theoretical underpinnings of what they have mastery of -- whether said communication is via words/diagrams/models/etc...).

A Renaissance Man need only demonstrate peer-accepted competency/mastery in multiple fields (difficult enough). This also seems to have a distinct arts connotation as well. Significantly closer to a Jack of many trades.

Thus one could have a broad enough range of skills and interestes to be an RM and enough depth of knowledge in some of those fileds to also qualify as a polymath. One could also be just an RM (insufficient expertise to qualify as a polymath), or just a polymath (just sciences and/or social sciences, no art). --24.22.227.53 18:55, 27 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As an example: The Pretender (television) would be an RM (or possibly Universal Man), not a polymath, as he didn't really take the time to develop the capacity for qualitatively original insights into any of the disciplines he learned, though he did develop a profound competency.--24.22.227.53 20:35, 27 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

To me, "Renaissance Man" seems to be a very colloquial term often thrown around as a compliment from one individual to another, whereas "polymath" is a real word, a technical term with a real meaning. But it is not easy to show convincingly that my impression is correct. Hi There 16:22, 13 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ken Jennings as a Polymath

List your name below if you think Ken Jennings should be listed as a polymath.

Richard Selby

Toni Selby

I don't think he fits the description, sorry. He definately has an impressive knowledge of trivia, but there's more to it than that. Have a look at the other people on the list. --fvw * 09:15, 2005 Jan 2 (UTC)
No. Bacchiad 11:35, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

vs jack of all trades

Would polymath = jack of all trades, or would two articles be required?

Polymath appears more artsy/theoretical, while a Jack tends to be more craftsman/builder and at closest engineer--ZayZayEM 09:19, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

'Jack of all trades' is usually followed by 'and master of none' while a polymath is supposed to excel in multiple fields. I think this would argue against the equivalence though there are similarities. Further a polymath usually excels in Several fields while a jack of ALL trades would be asked to work in many (a large number of) fields. RJFJR 17:49, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)

Jack of all trades only implies versatility. There are a few such terms, like man of letters, which are have no real positive or negative connotations. Polymathy ought to be more positive, I suppose. Charles Matthews 19:18, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

In Enneagram theory, 'Jack of all trades' is in general reference to type 7, Polymath is in general reference to type 5. Potential interrelation relevance vis-a-vis the lines of integration and disintegration. --24.22.227.53 19:21, 26 July 2005 (UTC)--24.22.227.53 18:54, 26 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Polyhistor

An Anon changed the opening sentence to A polymath (also known as a polyhistor - the two refer to qualitatively different kinds of knowledge and understanding) is a person who excels in multiple fields,

I am moving it here for discussion (please expand, in what way do the words differ? Are there people who honestly confuse the two words?) and reverting the change. Strike out is a bad way to handle this. RJFJR 23:36, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Note, polyhistor is currently a redirect to polymath. RJFJR 23:39, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

I, the Anon, have since expanded some of my reasoning onto the page. Personally it's predicated on differing epistemological orientations of psychologically different characters. I also think I met the NPOV criteria too (to an extent: "Two conceivable..." could be misread as implying these are the only two conceivable). --24.22.227.53 03:48, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

"With the addition of potential ancillary meanings derived from cognates, possible differentiation is even more pronounced." I considered this sentence important, as the cognates of manthánein in Old Icelandic, Old High German, and Gothic (and further back to the Indo-European *men(s)-dhē-), specifically, add additional differentiation as to what the two terms math and histor focus on. All of these cognates from the Chamber's book. I have no expertise in etymology (thus not initially wanting to phrase the article to an etymological bent).

My expertise in personality theory is also somewhat idiosyncratic (neutral wording -- the same way Einstein's original math on relativity was idiosyncratic), thus I may not be seen as a specialist by others who have official credentials in the psychology of personality. It's possible a significant portion of professional psychologists/personality theorists who also happen to use the two words (and have given insufficient thought to what the vocabulary they are using actually indicates) may also incorrectly be using the terms as synonyms (thus my usage of "possibly" in the original draft). Though I do know at least one professional personality theorist who makes the same/similar differentiation as I do (Don Riso and/or Russ Hudson). --24.22.227.53 23:20, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Now! will the real Polyhistor please stand up!

"Polyhistor" is simply a synonym of "polymath" —as the elaborately attempted distinctions without differences so clumsily presented in this current article demonstrate by egregious example. The only sensible post-sophmore ever employing Polyhistor will be found to be discussing Lucius Cornelius Alexander Polyhistor (died 35 BCE), who was brought to Rome after the Mithridatic War, and impressed his literary colleagues with so many works on philosophy, geography, and history, that he received the cognomen Polyhistor. Anyone substituting "polyhistor" for "polymath" in an English sentence is just showing off. As simple as that. The word is a distraction, which turns attention from the subject improperly to the writer, thus a vulgarism. Note how the paragraph headed Etymological differentiation between Polymath and Polyhistor draws attention from Leonardo. --Wetman 05:06, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. I'm aware my attempted distinction (vis-a-vis the no original research policy of wikipedia) was cluttered and is less than desirable. This was as much an attempt at communication on my part as it was an attempt to non-synonymize the two terms. They aren't fully synonyms, no matter what the idiot (usage 3 in modern english) editors at the Oxford English and Merriam-Webster dictionaries say. Your synonymizing of the two terms is a fairly obvious mistake those who lack sufficient expertise in psychology and personality theory commonly make. et tu, Voltaire? --24.22.227.53 06:36, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Given those most likely to be polyhistors (as opposed to polymaths) do tend toward sophistication in usage and moral superiority (Jung's extraverted Thinker and extraverted Feeler (eg. Jonathan Swift??? and Maureen Dowd)), vulgarism is not off the mark. Given Leonardo is an example, and Polymath and Polyhistor as terms are what the wikipedia entry is about, your comparison is messed up. --24.22.227.53 07:27, 28 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

And given that polyhistor and polymath deal with specific kinds of intellectual orientations in humans, a sufficient grasp of personality differences (whether through psychology or via personal observation) is necessary to understand the terms.

Who copied who?

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/Polymath.html

Arual

Einstein - not a polymath

I think the example of Einstein not being a polymath might be slightly unfair. Einstein was an accomlished violin player, almost on the level of a professional. One music critic, having heard him play, and not knowing the real reason for his fame commented "Einstein's violin playing is excellent, but he does not deserve his world fame, there are many others just as good." For sources, simply google, but I can look up a biography if needs be. Eoin 13:11, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not a polymath, though. I don't think musical skill counts. Charles Matthews 13:42, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think what Charles means is that Einstein's musical skill and his math and physics skills don't quite qualify him as a polymath. Fresheneesz 21:57, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Musical skill absolutely counts as a possible dimension in which one can excel or be a genius.

"a person who excels in multiple fields, particularly in both arts and sciences" Note the highlighted word. If maths and physics are different fields, then he's a polymath, even if he never even looked at a violin.--Dweller 07:16, 27 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I concur. Einstein is a polymath. —Nightstallion (?) 10:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, I'd say that's distorting the idea to get in one example. He was outstanding in mathematical physics, but that's it, really. --Charles Matthews 12:11, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So, there's maths, there's physics and there's mathematical physics; three different disciplines? --Dweller 12:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Homo universalis

I don't think polymath is the same as Homo universalis. The goal of the Homo universalis was to combine all existing human knowledge, that's a lot more than to excell in multiple fields. Until the early renaissance acquiring all existing human knowledge was more or less possible. At this moment it is not just unlikely but impossible. Even an introduction to all fields of human knowledge would take more than a lifetime. None of these contemporary polymaths could rightfully be called a Homo universalis, so I don't think the words are synonyms. I think Homo universalis should have its own article. Piet 11:23, 2 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with List of Polymaths

Since the "List of Polymaths" article is becoming unwieldy/ridiculous, it has been proposed before now that we merge the list with this article, or perhaps more accurately, simply delete the list and leave this article as is, as a number of the most notable polymaths are already listed - Da Vinci, etcetera. Anyone wanting to list random polymaths can equally add them to the Category : Polymaths, which does equally well for the task. Gravelrash 16:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Competant Man?

Speaking of mergings, what makes the Heinlein style hero that much different than a Polymath? Is it the difference between knowledge and skills? (ie. when James Bond knows how to fly the space shuttle he's a Competant Man, but when he figures out the type of nuclear bomb Goldfinger is using he's a Polymath?)