Talk:Deus vult

More info

There is already some discussion about this on Talk:First Crusade. This article originally said It means "God wills it" in Lingua Franca, an international language (similar to some degree to the modern Interlingua) of Western Europe. "Deus" is Latin for God. "Lo" is Italian for "it." "Volt" is third person singular for the Medieval French verb Voler - to will, wish, desire, want. That's pretty strange, to say the least.

The phrase appears variously as deus vult, dieu le veut, deus lo volt, etc etc...and even though every book about the crusades mentions it in one form or another, no one ever says where it comes from. It might be bordering on original research to try to figure it out, but I think it is impossible to claim it was "deus lo volt" or anything else in the vernacular. The only sources for it (that I can find so far) are in Latin, and only Robert the Monk seems to mention it at all. The Pope and the audience were probably not speaking Latin, nor were the crusaders on the crusade itself, but we don't really know what they would have said or how they would have spelled it in their own languages (11th century forms of French, Occitan, and Italian were hardly standardized). Adam Bishop 22:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

This is all good info that should be part of the article, we can just say "it is unknown" to avoid original research. I was going to say this should probably be moved to wiktionary, but given the uncertainty of it, probably could justify its own article here. -- Stbalbach 22:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

"...The war to which they are called is a Holy War and Deus volt is the fitting battle-cry..." - quoted in J.F.C. Fuller's "A Military History of the Western World," with a footnote of "There are various versions of this appeal: the original version has not come down to us. On this question see D. Munro's 'Speech of Pope Urban II at Clermont, 1095', in The American Historical Review (1906), XI, pp.231-242"
Fuller's book was published in 1954 and I'm not sure how to acquire a source he used that was published in 1906, but this would perhaps lead to more information on the phrase since he quotes it as "deus volt."JW (talk) 17:16, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Research libraries might have the AHR that far back; it's on JSTOR anyway. It's still a pretty decent article despite it's age. Adam Bishop (talk) 04:21, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I think you'll find the phrase originates long before that. Try Augustine. Cited in Harnack's History of Dogma, "197 Augustine indeed could further explain why the form, in which the good takes possession of and delivers the soul, must consist in the infusion of love. So long as the soul along with its will is confronted by duty (an ought), and commands itself to obey, it has not completely appropriated the good; “nam si plena esset, nec imperaret ut esset, quia jam esset” (Confess. VIII. 21). Accordingly, the fact that it admits the duty, does not yet create an effective will ex toto. It must accordingly so love what it ought, that it no longer needs command itself; nay, duty (the ought) must be its only love; only then is it plena in voluntate bona. The “abyssus corruptionis nostræ” is only exhausted when by love we “totum illud, quod volebamus nolumus et totum illud, quod deus vult, volumus (Confess. IX. 1). Doubtless online somewhere ... Parzivalamfortas 01:48, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

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