Talk:Chaldean Catholics

Please brothers of Religion, we need change this discussion

unproductive soapboxing
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
There's been a big mistake, not necessarily religion can trace their ethnicity. This is an error which unfortunately today is causing wars in the world and we see a repeat of that here unfortunately.There are followers of the Chaldean Church who are Assyrians(generally those who come from villages in the Nineveh plain where there were tribes Assyrian), the Chaldeans are the ethnic that the descendant of the Babylonian people who also live in their villages and go to the Chaldean Church. Just as there are Arabs who are Christians and attend the Chaldean Church, some of these cities generally Mosul was inhabited by tribes in its founding of the Kingdom of Araba who were Arab tribes who founded the city of Hatra under a Parthian empire and were in Mosul and Iraq before Islam, as Manathera, Taghlib, Tayy and others who certainly have christians descendants in the major cities of Iraq. We can also mention that some Armenians Chaldean church goers. In this same way the church you attend does not trace their ethnicity, just as there are Muslims who are not Arabs. Even the followers of the Eastern Church and the Assyrian Church, not all are ethnically Assyrian, there are Arabs, Armenians and other ethnic groups. we will be debating that our whole life? We the christians, we have pray to a better world. The reality is we are all Semites and one people by faith, or Chaldean, Assyrian, Arabic and so are all of the Chaldean church and defend our belief that the world is peace and love. This type of discussion serves to divide rather than enhances our people. So let's save our strength to unite our people and do our best Iraq. God Bless all Brothers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Salim1187 (talk • contribs) 20:32, 3 May 2011 (UTC) You are completely wron, the Chaldean Catholics are Syriac Christians and a part of the Assyrian(Syriac) people, they are speaker or originally spoke the the Syriac Aramaic language, how you can say that they are Arabs or Armenian, the Armenians have their own Churches and their own Christian rite and are not adherents of the Chaldean Catholic Church, and they are certainly not arabs, no one of this Church identifies themself as a arab. Elvis214 (talk) 01:48, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

"Syriac language"

On that article, it is said that Chaldeans speak Syriac. I assure you that this language is long gone. Chaldeans and Assyrians speak Neo-Aramaic languages. I was reverted when I removed it from the language list. I didn't want to have a edit war, so I came here to start this very important discussion (or rather question) - Why is Syriac listed there when it doesn't exist anymore? Not to mention, shouldn't it be Chaldean Neo-Aramaic instead? That's what Chaldeans SPEAK after all. User:Meganesia (talk) 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Theoretically, all Assyrians/Chaldeans speak Syriac considering that their Neo-Aramaic dialects all originated from Syriac. Syriac, the old and first dialect itself, it still used by the respective Assyrian churches as well; so theoretically, they do use Syriac. ܐܵܬܘܿܪܵܝܵܐ 19:50, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

All the dialects spoken by the Assyrian people derive from the Imperial Aramaic of 8th century Assyria. Syriac evolved in Assyria during the 5th century BC. Actually the Neo Aramaic dialects have more archaic elements than Classical Syriac, and may well have overlaid the earlier Akkadian Assyrian, including loan words, family names and grammatical features that all come from Akkadian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.100.25.101 (talk) 08:59, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

There appears to be no single serious source for "Chaldeans" to be a distinct ethnicity

Neither in this article nor anywhere else do I see a serious source for "Chaldeans" to be a distinct ethnicity. Every serious academic source I know of describes the term "Chaldean" for contemporary people as an invention by early modernity European missionaries, to denote those ethnic Assyrian people who were willing to convert to the catholic church they had set up under that name. I recommend that the entire article be radically re-written. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 16:27, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Fine elaboration of mainstream academic view here: Terms for Syriac Christians#Chaldean and Chaldo-Assyrian identity -- 2A1ZA (talk) 16:38, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

I have now reworked the article to the point that only the "History" section has the fringe theory problem. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 19:23, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Found in the article history that only some months ago it had proper "Etymology" and "History" sections, restoring them, deleting the fringe section instead. Case closed. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 19:55, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Chaldeans are not Assyrians , they have a distinctive recognition in the Iraqi Constitution (Article 125), so you have no right to change what exists in the constitutions and the rights of the Chaldean people --FPP (talk) 22:31, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

The Iraqi Constitution is by no means a source for your fringe theory. You delete huge amounts of well sourced mainstrem academic material, to replace it with unsourced fringe theory stuff. Stop it. If you have issues, go through the mainstream version section by section and say what issies you have, or improve yourself where you have sources. I am reporting your account now for edit-warring. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 22:55, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

First if you want dialogue you have to stop your edits and returns the article as it was, Iraq's constitution is not the source for you? so this your problem with iraqi constitution does not enter here I did not understand about what your claim, replace it with unsourced fringe theory stuff John Joseph, James Claudius, Encyclopaedia Britannica and the sources of the Chaldean Church and also from ancient Nestorian church itself, this is what historians except without all these reliable sources are present in the article, Therefore, this article has sufficient sources to be so--FPP (talk) 23:26, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

The central claims of your "Chaldean nationalist" fringe theory version of the article have ZERO serious sources. Any relation of "Chaldean Christians" of today with the ancient people of the same name, that disappeared from historic records 2000 years ago, has ZERO serious sources. The entire "Chaldean nationalist" historic narrative you invent has ZERO serious sources. And your infobox has no sources. Your version of the article is plain inacceptable for Wikipedia. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 23:52, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry to tell you, that this claims is wrong, because the Chaldeans and present them with their own parties and the Church, current and Chaldeans are the same Chaldeans who brought down the Assyrian empire, and they were taken from their territories with the Medes I'm sorry to tell you that sources confirm what is in the article, including the ancient Nestorian Church sources in Hakkari, as well as the Nestorian Church sources in India, But if you have racist political vision towards the Chaldean, so this your problem, not my problem--FPP (talk) 00:05, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Your claim that the adherents of the Chaldean Catholic Church "are the same Chaldeans who brought down the Assyrian empire" is exactly the core of your fringe theory, on which you base your Chaldean nationalist version of the article, and for which you have ZERO serious sources (and for which you do not even try to offer any sources). -- 2A1ZA (talk) 00:28, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

We are not assyrian

This speech is intended to manipulate the history of Chaldeans. Assyrian advocates are rewriting their history under false pretense, desperate attempts by Assyrians who are originally Chaldeans turned Nestorian. The Chaldean name is in the constitution of Iraq as a nationality. This speech is false.