Talk:Tipu Sultan

	India portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Indian history workgroup.

Tipu Fans

To all Tipu sultan and hyder ali fans in india, pakistun and all muslim countries, it is a known fact that the Mysore maharajs gave them food and shelter and these very cunning traitors paid back their debt by occupiying the throne and acting as defacto rulers which itself proves how saintly they were. Tipu as every muslim ruler and invader was a Muslim fanatic who waited till he rose to powerful position to convert people, ofcourse he might not have done that in mysore but other places that he invaded.

REPLY TO THE ANONYMOUS SENDER

Oh oh oh.No will ever listen to your silly words.The maharajas were lavish spenders who spend the tresury at thier subjects expences and who did not care a shit about thir subjects.Tipu Sultan prosecuted a brilliant military career; his rule contributed a golden chapter to the history of India. Both Hyder and Tipu brought in many technological innovations, modernizing the Mysorean army and expanding Mysore's foreign trade. They also aligned themselves by and large with the French, whose French East India Company was politically very active in southern India at the time.Hyder Ali, however, never officially ascended the throne himself, believing in a religious maxim to not betray his king. After the death of Hyder Ali in 1782, his son, Tipu Sultan, also known as Sher-E-Mysore (The Tiger of Mysore), continued this charade till the death of the nominal King Khasa Chamaraja Wadiyar VIII in 1796.

If the marathas, nizams and raja of travancore had not sided with the british in 1799 then india would have been freed in the same year!

CARE TO PROVIDE YOUR IDENTITY AND USERNAME...Ah u wont! guys like u always stab from behind like traitors!

Mujeerkhan 22:55, 8 september 2006 (UTC)

tipu as a saint

tipu is regarded as a saint (waliallah) as i get information i will add up in the main page...can anyone also help me out or is there any objection.....people of all faith visit his shrine in srirangapatnam...

religious persecution

I have noted that this heading has been sourced within any proper reference and someone is using blog sites as their reference....bcoz anything can be said in blog sites...i will be removing the heading within a week if no reference is given...as indian history has never admitted to any crimes whatsover on tipu sultan....

Mujeerkhan15:20, 11 June 2006 AEST

There are at least some references i can find online (and remember from other sources) about Tipu donating money to renovate temples, giving other temples land and jewellery etc. The Sharada temple in Sringeri for one - which is also the monastery of the Sringeri Shankaracharya. A series of about 30 letters written in Kannada, correspondence between Tipu Sultan and the Sringeri Shankaracharya exist, documenting this (and Tipu even comes up with a sanskrit quote about evildoers committing crimes with a smile, only weeping when they are brought to justice for their crimes (though this was probably from one of his much more erudite and literate courtiers, perhaps his prime minister, Purnaiya). A quite well researched book by Prof. Irfan Habib documents this - http://www.indowindow.com/akhbar/article.php?article=61&category=8&issue=11 .. and this is further corroborated by an article in Tattvaloka, the magazine published by the Sringeri monastery - http://www.tattvaloka.com/publications.htm for more. What is funny is that the temple was apparently ransacked by Maratha soldiers in 1791-92 - unique twist there, hindu soldiery that consciously used several obvious trappings of hinduism including the saffron bhagwa flag, and that is venerated by a hindu right wing party the Shiv Sena, pillaging probably the most eminent hindu monastery in south india.

srs 17:04, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Suresh (member srs ) , thank you very much for providing valuable information.

Mujeerkhan 17:00, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please provide a cite before making edits like "Even so there is some evidence that his armies destroyed many Hindu temples in the south part of India.". Which temples did his troops demolish and where?

Comments from VS

At the Madhoor Temple in Kasaragod district of Kerala, there is a sword mark on the roof under which it is clearly mentioned that this was the act of tipu sultan.

Please refer wikipedia article on "Mangalorean Konkani" which has mentioned about forced conversion to muslim by Tipu

I could also find a lot of internet sites including published magazine articles which agrees that Tipu has made generous contributions to some temples. And yet Prisoners of war were given choice of either embracing muslim religion or to rot in his jails and most of them accepted the first option.

End of Comments from VS

Though i am from pakistan I have heard stories about Tipu Sultan since as i was a kid. Tipu saw no difference from from his hindu and muslims subjects, he contributed jewels, cash for temples. Once Mahatma gandhi said " Tipu for the great Waqfs (trusts) he instituted for Hindu temples. His palaces stood close to Venkataraman Srinivasa and Sri Ranganath temples. He specially praises the Mysore ruler for the famous saying that ‘one day of a lion’s life is better than 100 years life of a jackal.’ [1] To top it all, Tipu Sultan was also solicitous of the Brahmin clergy of his state and sought their cooperation - even requested for special prayers invoking the blessings of deities. His letters to Jagatguru Swami of Srinagrimat in 1791 are the proofs of his excellent relationship with the Hindu subjects. Some 30 letters of Tipu are preserved in the archaeological department of India to vouchsafe for this claim.

In pakistan, we respect him very much and have named a navy ship called PNS Tipu sultan [http://www.pakistanidefence.com/images/Navy%20Pics/PNSTippuSultan_AmazonClassFrigate_001_PakistaniDefence.com.jpg End of comment], monuments, roads in memory of this great freedom fighter of the sub continent. And yet some people say that he was a 'bad man'. And i have heard that indian history is rewriting on tipu sultan ( if i am right). Remember it was British and politics which divided our countries.

Hassan 19:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tipu Sultan was typical Islamic despotic a bit like Saddam Hussein but much worse. A temple smasher and killer of Hindus, this evil snake was killed by the Britsh for their own reasons.

Tipu was barbaric.

Provide some evidence in this regard but pls do not use blog sites or propoganda sites as evidence. Since I spend my schooling in mysore I have come across several hindu temples which got funds from tipu sultan ex nanjangud temple...and the best example to which i can give to is the temple in his Srirangapatnam fort itself! and also remember that a major part of his army were hindus. People like you will defenetly change Indian history.

Mujeerkhan 15:20, 10 June 2006 AEST

Care to provide documentation?—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 04:37, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

Needs work.

Was "Tipu" his given name?—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 04:38, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

title

I have known that guy from history better under name Tippu Sahib. Should he be under that? 217.140.193.123 8 July 2005 16:54 (UTC)

Can the above write please provide evidence for his claims? Tipu Sultan was very much a tolerant and just ruler of his people. Had he been as you state then his own Hindu Subjects wouldn't have fought and died under his cause our of sheer loyalty. There are many baised books which claim what you claim, BUT TILL DATE they contain no actual reliable sources for this explicitly false statement. I would also request that that part also be removed from the article seeing as even Jawarlal Nehru no less looked up to his staunch loyalty to his people and his strong patriotism. He was a ruler of a type we sadly no longer see in todays 'civilised' world.

Raja

Nonsense phrase

To quote from the article: "A rocket carrying about one pound of powder could travel almost 1,000 yards. In contrast, rockets in Europe not being iron cased, could not take large chamber pressures and as a consequence, were not capable of reaching distances anywhere close to a mile." But a mile is 1760 yards, so what is being asserted here? Too Old 05:00, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Weight of the rocket is about 2kg. With about 1kg of propellant. 50mm in dia about 250mm length, the range performance is reported 900mts to 1.5 km. [2] Wisesabre 06:10, 15 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

So the rockets had about 1kg (2.2lb) of powder, not 1 lb. With this charge their range was between 6/10 mile (900 meters) and 9/10 mile (1.5km), probably in excess of 1000 yards (6/10 mile). The contemporary European rockets possibly could match this, since their casings weighed less, so the same amount of powder might have driven them as far. The comparison is indecisive. Does anyone know of an experiment to test the relative ranges of the two rocket types using the same amount of powder? The American National Anthem refers to "the rockets' red glare" during the War of 1812, implying military useage. At any rate the article might be in error. Too Old 02:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The battles against Tipu Sultan inspired Congreve to develop his Congreve rockets for the British Army, and their later use is mentioned in The Star Spangled Banner. The contemporary western versions (contemporary with those used by Tipu Sultan, before Congreve) were not so powerful, as this article says. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:34, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Mother’s name

Fatima is an old Arabic name (The Prophet’s daughter’s name was Fatima), so that would the mother’s given name.

Fakher-an-Nissa is Arabic and literally means Pride of Women; this would be a sort of title. You can either use her title by its own or call her: Fakher-an-Nissa Fatima bint FATHER_NAME.

I hope this information is useful, because as the article stands now it seems her exact name is not known! --DelftUser 19:04, 3 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Religious persecution

Tipu seemed to be a great secularist. There is a Ranganatha swamy Temple standing right in the ruins of Srirangapatnam. Pity such a great soldier had to go like that. --Hydman 06:20, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The bit on persecution is a straight lift from the link Tipu Hero or villain given below- verbatim, am deleting the same as it has copyvio issues. Not even getting into whether site is accurate or not. ( seems to be focused on reviewing books that support the right wing point of view). Haphar 12:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I come across this link which states that ASI found some manuscripts,which record the destruction of temples my Tipu in different places.I think we need to revise this section to include persecution of hindus,christins in kerala,goa and karnataka.[3]AumprakashReddy

Did you actually read the entire article instead of quoting a single line from it out of context? srs 10:58, 8 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Plz explain what is out of context here AumprakashReddy 04:56, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Help wanted in dealing with a Tipu Sultan spammer

Every so often a spammer using an IP address that starts with 64.228.225. spams links to bogus web sites. I have tracked down and reverted all I could find, but I'm getting a little sick of tracking all these articles on my watchlist (it's up to 263 pages by now). Can I ask the regular, frequent editors of this article to keep an eye out for this person? If they hit again, please revert the edit and warn the spammer. If you have the time, check out what other edits they made that day and revert them as well -- or just let me know and I'll do it. The link they like to add to this article is

[http: // www angelfire com/co/begumnoor/tipu2 html Tipu Sultan Article by Jean Overton Fuller].

The real point of the link is to build search engine rankings for the commercial links at the bottom of the page; the same spamdexer is linking similarly bogus pages for Hindu mystical figures and U.S. country music stars -- all with the same links at the bottom of the page.

The spammer also recently created an account, User:Borgengruft.

For more info, see:

Thanks for your help.--A. B. 07:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

To Tippy Fans

To Tippy sultyn Fans again, who are defending that he was not a muslim fanatic, must know that what right did hydra ali and tippy sultan had to cease power, they call people who eat the masters given food and betray them as Namak Haram, they were just that, mYsore was doing extremely well without them and did exceptionally well after them, as usual most of his armys commanders were muslims and when they defeated Travancore maharaja they converted thousands of Nairs to Islam by force, and he had links with turkey, persia and other muslim countries. About his contributions to temples, he was not giving his grandparents money but the money of the Mysore Kingdom, the maharajas money,its not a big deal, i am sure he would have given hundred times more money to the madrasaas and mosques, he built tombs and mosques in mysore using the stolen money of the Maharajas, so his fans what ever u thik he is he was definately a traitor and muslim fanatic. our so called secular leaders have made a hero out of a Villan. vgowda

Dude! care 2 provide da documentation n u can type watever ye want in ur brains but not here...Mysorebhai 20:30, 14 September, 20:30, UTC

vgowda can be more refined but he has a point. religious persecution by tipu is a well known, atleast much debated fact. also his anti kannada stance is recent news and references can be found in any karnataka newspaper of the last couple of weeks or month. and google for tipu's religious persecution am sure you will find lots of hits. Sarvagnya 01:01, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tipu was a hero. A great man. The rabble-rousing Hindutavavadis have no other work but to slander non-Hindu people. Bastards, first learn English, then come here. I think this Sarvagnya, Vgowda and other Tipu haters are all sockpuppets of the Hindutvavadi puppet master. Don't make a mess here in Tipu article, you fools.

--Tipu Hero 04:58, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I learned English already. fool=flower right? phulBakaman _Bakatalk 00:06, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To Jehadi Fanatics of Islam

First of all Mysorebhai and Tippy hero, mind ur language dont show off ur culture and upbringing to the whole world and ur jehadism and fanaticsm will not run here, truth hurts sometimes but u cannot supress the truth . Tipu was a muslim fanatic and was Anti Kannada and ur shouting here will not change history, so go and put whatever u want in Ladens or Saddam hussains articles ur current heros, ok. --vgowda

So if we can put some credible references to this it would be great. Then it can be referenced and put in the article and there would be no need to get into discussions over this. Everyone on this page is not in Karnatka and would not have access to the kannada news articles. Haphar 11:44, 21 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism by Fanatics

I have provides the links to tipu being Anti kannada, but somebody is trying to protray hima as secular when he was not, and they keep writing about sringeri which has been mentioned already. --vgowda

Tipu The Greatest

Tipu Sultan was certainly the greatest. He was a great nationalist. He kicked away the Mysore kings and became a GREAT SULTAN !!!!! He brought the great language URDU to foolish Karnatak people speaking old bland Cannad language. The beauty of Urdu language floored many Cannad people and they adopted Urdu and became Muslim. Tipu didnt force anyone to become Muslim. He was a great king. He did the great work of making "Kafiristan Karnatak" into "Dar-Ul-Karnatistan". Thank him for the riches he brought to Caranatak. Otherewise what were these Cannada people doing. Poor people were slaves to the Marathas and Nizam. After Tipu, the Mysore Rajas again became slaves, this time of European British. But still Carnatic government dont make justice. Urdu should be made Carnatik state's official language. Fools, stop badmouthing the gr8 Tipu Sultan.

ALL HAIL THE GREAT TIPU SULTAN !!!! DOWN WITH THE CANNADDA FANATICS !!!!

Tipu Beat Cannad

This is not helping anyone. If you could keep running down other communities it would help. Tipu does not become great by degenerating other communities or language. I think it takes away from his greatness to have someone run others down.Let's be fact based, please give your sources for your claims, and go easy on the aggression. Haphar 15:35, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No personal attacks (NPA)

Users vgowda and Tipu Hero pls dont make NPA on other members or i will be forced to make a action against you and if you folks have any issues pls discuss here instead of editing the main article. And other members please put your differences aside and also please sign in.

Mujeerkhan 20:55, 23 september 2006 (UTC)

So ridiculous that it defies reason

The very claim that Tipu Sultan is the "Father of Modern Rocket Science" is laughable.Any reasonable person viewing this article would immediately see this claim for the absurd level of jingoism it touts. As a practising physicist, I find this statement so ludicrous that the only words I can think of to describe it are Wolfgang Pauli' famous "NOT EVEN WRONG". It is pure junk science at it's finest.

First of all, the very claim that Tipu used "rockets" as weapons of war is unsourced and dubious enough to warrant a special mention in my professor's classes on spotting pseudoscience. I've seen the Doordarshan TV show by that Shahbaz Khan guy where they showed this rocket stuff and, even at age 12, I could see it for the nonsense it really was.

Tipu Sultan was no scientist and he did not have the background in basic empiricism that led the ancient Chinese to discover primitive rockets in the first place (and even THEY used it for entertaintment, not as weapons). Even if we buy into this rockets crap, it would not be Tipu Sultan who get's the credit, but the minister or worker or somebody who figured it out under his command. Do we credit Eisenhower with being the "Father of the Atomic Bomb", or do we reserve the credit to Oppenheimer, Einstein, Feynman et al?????

To make this claim is, quite frankly, insulting to the years of experimental research work that led to the first rocket engines developed by Tsiolkovsky (the REAL father of rocket science). Please provide VERIFIABLE and RELIABLE sources per WP:Reliable Sources that attest to the claim that Tipu even had access to "rockets" and then please change the title to reflect a more balanced section (assuming that you people can find any proof of this "rockets" fable).Hkelkar 06:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

OK, User:Nobleeagle pointed me to the ref from where the "Father of Rocket Science" balderdash was plagiarized. I also found some slightly credible refs that state that rockets were used by Marathas and by Tipu (though frankly, calling those glorified firecrackers "rockets" is still pretty ridiculous). While I stand corrected about the use of rockets, the section was plagiarized copyvio from the article. Plus,calling him the "father" of rocketry is pretty laughable so I merged the section with an earlier one where the rocketry thing was better discussed.Hkelkar 07:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious assertion(s)

"He was a noted linguist, patriot and a freedom fighter"

If he was such a noted linguist then what are his linguistic works? Anyone care to cite some? If he spoke multiple languages that does not make him a linguist. Many people in India were (still are) multilingual. Shivaji spoke Portuguese, for instance. Rani Laxmibai spoke Persian as well as Marathi. Did that make her a "linguist"? Hardly.

"Patriot" is a POV claim. Patriot to what? India? India as a nation did not even EXIST back then so of what was he a patriot? Mysore/Srirangapatnam/whatever? That's not patriotism, it'c called "Tribal Loyalty". I mean, is Richard the Lionheart referred to as a "patriot" even though he "loved" England? Is Charlemagne referred to as a "patriot" even though he "loved" France? What about the German Kaisers? Are they called "Patriots"??? What about Shaka Zulu? Is he referred to as a "Patriot"? Then why Tipu Sultan?

"Freedom Fighter"??? Whose freedom was he fighting for? Indians? Indians were hardly "free", living under Kings, Rajas, Badshahs,Sultans, Mansabdaars and Nizams is not "freedom".Plus, the Brits hadn't conquered the country yet so he wasn't fighting for freedom from the Brits but to keep them from taking away his kingdom. Tipu Sultan clearly had no conception of democracy as we understand it today so by what stretch of the imagination was he a "Freedom Fighter"?????Let's keep the jingiosm out of wikipedia shall we?

"We can replace this statement with "He was a notable ruler and a capable and inventive fighter". That's good enough I think. Please discuss.Hkelkar 09:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Brainwashing!

User Hkelkar has a long history of meddling with Indian Buddhist Movement, Lalu Prasad Yadav, Votebank, Godhra Train Burning, Bombay Riots, with a majority on critisicing minority communities and can be branded as a rasict, extremists and does not have a place to say in wikipedia and should be banned. Muslims and hindus see tipu sultan as a saint and people of all faiths visit his grave...have you been there, then you will understand who he was. people with a negative attitude towards tipu sultan cant swallow the truth and probably cant digest it.