Talk:Raistlin Majere

Some comments

Several comments while cleaning this article up:

        The Kingdom of Ergoth enacted laws that Mages be allowed one
        bladed implement for their safety due to the unique ways of
        magic in the world of Krynn.

Is this a fact in the books, or just something invented? From what I remember, there are two different explanations given in the books, and both are written in the Magius article. If this is yet another explanation, and it can be verified (in example, found in a book reference), I think it should be moved along with the two explanations already appearing in Magius article to the Wizards of High Sorcery article, in a new section (like "Weapon handling"). Otherwise, it should be deleted.

that's a fact, it was in eother 1 of Raistlin's life stories. ** (ChildOfMorella 18:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC))

        but also the vast knowledge that Fistandantilus had accumulated
        over the course of his one-thousand year lifespan

        Caramon suffered grief as a result of his twin's fate, and later,
        as he was preparing to take his own life, had a vision of
        Raistlin's spirit being rescued and given peace by Paladine.

Please, add a reference to the highlighted facts. If they cannot be verified, they should be deleted. Finally, I suggest merging a whole subsection (about Palin's Test) in Palin Majere article, since it has more to do with Palin Majere than with Raistlin. Please give opinions about this marging idea here -- ReyBrujo 05:50, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I merged the information from Palin's test into the Palin Majere article. I will clean up this article later, expect to find it heavily shortened (remember, this is supposed to be an introduction about Raistlin Majere, not a full rip from the series). -- ReyBrujo 03:30, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't actually own the books (I checked them out from the library), so I might not be the best person to speak here, but the thing with Caramon is real, it's in the books (And it's by Weis and Hickman, it's not in the spin-offs). Caramon's attempt to take his own life is described in detail in 'The Second Generation' before Palin's test -- I remember that fairly vividly. I can look up the exact quote later. Eeblefish 04:43, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Comment

domszanto - Picky point, but I'm not sure that Raistlin's lung complaint was confirmed as TB - it could have been asthma, emphysema, etc. - would this be better just listed as "breathing difficulties" or "breathing problems"?

NONE of the books say he has TB. NONE say he has asthma, emphysema, of anything like that. They just say he had a wheezing breath, and a raspy, nasty cough. ** (ChildOfMorella 18:55, 27 February 2006 (UTC))

Raistlin frequently states that his chronic coughing and poor health were both a result of the "sacrifice he made for his magic". Later books delve into this further by saying that he gave part of his life force to Fistandantilus in exchange for the power to defeat the dark elf during his Test. His condition is magical, not medical. It's not TB or asthma, and certainly not emphysema. I don't see Raistlin as the type to be chain-smoking Marlboros. Wait, actually I CAN see that. --Soulforge19 07:48, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Not true. If you read Soulforge, I believe it's Par-Salian who says that it was the poisoned blade of the third Dark Elf that finally shatters his weak health. --Ostermana 04:05, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course none of the books say he has TB per say (it IS a fictional universe), but the symptoms are very much the same; to anyone who wanted to know what his sickness was like TB would be a good enough comparison. And as his sickness is much more than just breathing problems, or wheezing breath, or raspy cough (he has trouble exerting himself, he often coughs up blood, etc...) Maybe it would be best to say that he exhibits TB-like symptoms. --(Dainsleif

summary of story

This article is like a summary of the stroy. If someone wanted to read these books, they wouldn't have to they could just read this article! ** (ChildOfMorella 19:07, 27 February 2006 (UTC))

I don't agree. Having read most (but not all) of the Dragonlance books, this article, while being very thorough, hardly even begins to crack the surface of who Raistlin is. --Soulforge19 11:30, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

I concur with ChildOfMorella, this is pretty much a summary. Sure ,not the entire series, but a substantial part. The entire article should be surrounded with 'spoiler' tags. - Moe 11:48, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

editing

I edited and reworded alot. ** (ChildOfMorella 20:56, 27 February 2006 (UTC))

the writing is weak, it'd be much better if someone rewrote this.

Pronunciation

I would be interested in the official pronunciation of this name. I always pronounced it Rais-lin, but was recently told it is pronounced "Roz-lin" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.77.110.142 (talk • contribs) .

I always took the name to be pronoucned Raist-lin, the "t" is not silent (I believe) because of the fact that his nickname is Raist, not Rais. DoomsDay349 03:28, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I also believe it's pronounced 'Raist-lin', for the reasons mentioned by DoomsDay349. The person that told you that it's pronounced 'Roz-lin', is a fool! - Moe 11:48, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Parentage

I had thought that the twins' father was dead or gone prior to them being born. Raist23m

No, their father died in an accident when they were teenagers. Their mother died three or four days afterwards. -- ReyBrujo 19:07, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

I have had to correct vandalism of the character name; Tanis Half-Elven. The name was changed malisiously to 'Srounger'. I want to ban the caulprit but I do not know how. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tenda (talk • contribs) .

Silly me

I am sorry for my mistake I jumped the gun when I saw he was the leader of a party. Obviously not the party i was thinking of.

Still, good series of books my lifelong favorites. You would think I would know characters by now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tenda (talk • contribs) .

No problem at all. After all, one of the guidelines in Wikipedia is to be bold. -- ReyBrujo 19:05, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Cite references

Is it safe to remove the cite references tag since there's many references now? ddcc 22:59, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

The references have been there even before the tag was put. I believe people want more "online" references. -- ReyBrujo 23:04, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Raist Vs. Fist

"...he confronted Fistandantilus and the two fought for supremacy. Raistlin won..." It is never clearly stated who won, only that both of them continued to exist, somehow, in the new body. Cite resources, or omit that part. Raistlin8r 10:17, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Per the Legends trilogy, Raistlin defeated and consumed Fistandantilus. Note that after the Legends trilogy Raistlin had no more trouble with Fistandantilus. -- ReyBrujo 21:45, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

My brother once explained to me the existance of an artifact (The Mage's Bloodstone?) which allowed Fist, then Raist after he stole it, to consume/absorb the souls of magically active individuals so as to add the victims powers to their own. Fist supposedly had a school set up to lure powerful mage students into his grasp. Unfortunately, I have no idea where I might find a reference to any of this. I think he got it from an AD&D boxed adventure, but I don't know that.--Ostermana 07:35, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

It is explained, if I recall correctly, at Time of the Twins, when Caramon goes to kill Fistandantilus, finds Raistlin instead, and he explains how he was able to take Fistandantilus' place in history. -- ReyBrujo 07:40, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

I am on a patrol of DL articles for these sections, one was on the Tanis Half-Elven article... can someone verify those statements? DoomsDay349 00:31, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the Comment about raistlin explaining to caramon in the TEST OF THE TWINS trilogy. Read it. It clears a lot up. Also, try reading Italic text Raistlins daughterItalic text from the second generation —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.1.80.137 (talk • contribs) .

Raistlain v Fistandantilus part I

When Raistlain was taking his Test, the agreement with Fistandantilus was for all of his soul, not just part of it. Raistlain then refused, and the magical armor that resulted in his gold-colored skin protected him from Fistandantilus' weakened spectral form. This is all in the last couple chapters of Soul Forge, btw. --Ostermana 19:07, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

This article is massively innaccurate

Examples:

• Rasitlin did not recieve his golden skin from Fist, rather Fist explains that Raistlin summoned it to protect himself - Soul Forge
• Raistlin's health was shattered by the poisoned dagger that the third Dark Elf stabbed him with, Fist didn't get any of his soul/life energy - Soul Forge
• Mages were decreed to be allowed a single short blade not because of Huma, but because of Magius who was captured and tortured for days after his magic failed him, leaving him completely unarmed. - Legend of Huma
• The army Raistlin and Caramon joined after completing the Test had existed for generations - Brothers in Arms
• It's not the "Dragon Orb of Silvanesti", they just happen to possess it. It was the "Green Dragon Orb", a major artifact in the Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Masters Guide
• It's the Master of Past, Present and Future. Raistlin taunts Fist, saying Fist was the Master of Past and Present, but did not have the power/courage to control the Future as well - War if the Twins

Sometime in the next couple weeks, I'll reread Soul Forge, Brothers in Arms, Time/War/Test of the Twins and the Chronicles, take notes on Raistlin's actions/thoughts/motivations, and update the page. If anyone else wants to do so, however, feel free. I don't have any of the books from his later life though... ----Ostermana

Well, most of the points can be discussed. -- ReyBrujo 04:33, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should first make sure that there are no conflicts between different books, then check if the points are valid. To simplify the checking of the points, we could use http://www.dlnexus.com Dlnexus, then correct the article if valid. ddcc 16:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I doubt we'll find too many inconsistencies... Weis wrote basically all that is Raistlin, and cares for him like her own child (According to a forward in the Dragon Lance Complete Chronicles foreward. by Weis) Ah well, I'll know in a few days.----Ostermana 19:11, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

"Regardless, with Fistandantilus' magical power at his disposal, he rapidly became by far the most powerful magic-user on Krynn, outstripping even elven mages centuries older than he." Where is this from? This completely goes against the books. Raistlin almost gets his ass handed to him, constantly, in those first few years, and he doesn't get any power from Fist except for a temp boost during his Test, and after he steals Fist's soul. In the Chronicles he's extremely happy and proud of himself for getting his hands on one of Fist's earliest spellbooks. Most of his early knowledge comes from the books that Lemuel's father left behind, who was a famous War Wizard. - Soul Forge--Ostermana 19:19, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

The article was written by fans who often express opinions instead of facts. You will find a lot of these sentences. In fact, very few sentences could be saved from this article if we follow the guidelines. Just be bold and begin cleaning stuff, citing a book and page for the changes so that fans will know why what they wrote was deleted. -- ReyBrujo 19:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to completely rewrite it from scratch, soon as I finish reading through the books again.--Ostermana 20:36, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Figured I would make a few comments myself here.

• First off, the title is Master of Past and Present....not "and Future". - Many many references, Legends of the Twins to begin with, Chronicles.
• The Army of the Mad Baron had existed since he was in his teens when he knew that he wouldn't become the next Baron, but as we know he did become the next Baron. His army has not existed for for very long. - Brothers in Arms
• It isn't "Green Dragon Orb", close, but the real name for it is "Istar Orb", having come from the Tower of High Sorcery of Istar. - Towers of High Sorcery

I hope this helps, got more questions let me know and I will try and answer them. Good luck with the rewrite!--Kranar drogin 01:57, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

And that would be exactly why I'm going to reread everything before making changes.--Ostermana 20:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

as for the Orb, there is an Orb named for each color of dragon, good and evil, in the DMG 3.5. However, they renamed a bunch of stuff for DL, so this doesn't particularly surprise me. Amusingly, the Orb that Tas smashed wouldn't have done the Knights any good anyway. Turns out, with the exception of the Gold Dragon Orb (the one in the tower), no orb can control any type of dragon except the one it's tuned to. Raistlin's Orb can control Green Dragons, but no others. (The Guardian was a green, that's how I can tell).--24.16.154.193 00:53, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure you aren't confusing this with the "Dragon Stones"? Dragons Orbs do have a "personality reflecting what dragons it has trapped inside of it", but they control all dragons, not just what color they are. Also, the Palanthas Orb, one in the High Clerist's TOwer, was attuned to Red Dragons, but pulled in Blue Dragons during the battle. the DMG 3.5 really has no bearing as far as artifacts in DL, that is for D&D in general, so the info in those for the Dragon Orbs isn't acceptable. Please check out Towers of High Sorcery (sourcebook), p. 59-61 for info on them.--Kranar drogin 03:05, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

That makes sense. Dragon Stones controlled types of dragons by themselves. I think Tears of the Night Sky talked about them to a point too. -- ReyBrujo 04:01, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

(sigh) A thing called life has thrown in a whole slew of distractions, and school starts in a couple weeks, I probably won't get to this for a while yet. Also, the Dragon Orbs are on a one color per orb basis in general D&D, with the added bonus that using one makes all dragons hate you forever. But DL is not general D&D, as previously stated.--Ostermana 10:48, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Disputed/Rewrite

As discussed in other sections of the talk page, the factual accuracy of this article is lacking. Many general statements are made with no references, or are simply wrong, such as "Already weak physically, Raistlin's health was shattered almost completely after the test, due to the life energy he gave to Fistandantilus....His skin was also rendered a golden color as a result of a protection spell cast by Fistandantilus on him in his battle against the dark elves. Regardless, with Fistandantilus' magical power at his disposal, he rapidly became by far the most powerful magic-user on Krynn, outstripping even elven mages centuries older than he." This entire quote is completely bogus, as demonstrated by the last severl chapter of the book Soul Forge (ISBN: 0786913142) and Brothers in Arms (ISBN: 0786914297). The article appears to go down hill from there. Many of the personality statements are conjecture, and while I personally agree with many of them, they are not listed as such. There are many more, but I do not personally have the time to correct these issues myself at this time. --Ostermana 03:46, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, i would like to point out that it clearly states in "Drogons of a winters night", around the time when sturm dies,that it attracts a aura, or a calling that "Dragons" find irresitable. Not one type of dragon, but dragons.Its not singular. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.1.80.137 (talk • contribs) .

Raistlin's Daughter

I remember that there was one book that said Raistlin had a daughter (an Irda), however, I'm not quite sure of that. Did he have one? If so, Image:Raistlindaughter.JPG, this image works. ddcc 03:07, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

It is disputed. The short story, aptly named "Raistlin's Daughter" (in Second Generation), describes how Raistlin meets an Irda and they are aflicted by the Valin and are forced to have intercourse in a cave. Raistlin then forgets this, thanks to a spell. However, in Dragons of Summer Flame, Raistlin reveals another story and claims the rumours are a lie. As far as I know, it's not confirmed either way. I like to believe that the first story is true, as I have a soft spot for Raistlin :). DoomsDay349 03:31, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

From my point of view, it is not disputed. Raistlin has no daughter, and that image is actually Raistlin and the Irda who was supposedly the one who fall in love with him, not Usha. -- ReyBrujo 23:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Margaret Weis has come out and said that in no way shape or form has Raistlin ever had or will ever have a child. Basically that tale is considered a "Kender Tale".--Kranar drogin 00:04, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

=P. Fine then. Is it so wrong to dream? *wistful sigh* DoomsDay349 00:35, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

LOL, you can always dream! Sorry to shatter them though, but had to clarrify what the "Raistlin Master" has stated many times, even on her own boards.--Kranar drogin 00:37, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

:) thanks. Can you provide a reference to that KD? It might be helpful in the article. DoomsDay349 00:40, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Go to Tracy Hickman's website, http://www.dragonhearthproductions.com/, and get his podcast through itunes from July 23, 2006. That is an interview with Margaret that should be what you want. It is at the 22:30 minuteish, some lady asks Margaret and she states "Raistlin doesn't have a daughter, it was an urban legend."--Kranar drogin 01:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

What to do with the supposed picture of his daughter then? The picture is actually labeled "Raistlin's Daughter", with a comment of "This was back in the old days when we didn't do much preparation. We just starated painting to get it done. The art director wanted to show both the inside and the outside of the cave, which was really difficult" (Larry Elmore). ddcc 01:46, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Black Robe Picture

Does anyone have a better picture of Raistlin wearing the Black Robes? I know there is one here, but it only shows his face. I think a full body or at least upper body pic of Raistlin in Black Robes would be nice for this page, as I think his Black Robed-self is more common than his Red Robed one. DoomsDay349 00:49, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. See Image:Raistlinabyssportal.JPG. ddcc 01:51, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

So can I just add that then? Or do I have to go about some fair use policy? DoomsDay349 16:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair use policy is alreay on the image description, so you can just display it with a little caption saying something along the lines of: "this is raistlin wearing the black robes in istar with crysania and caramon". ddcc 16:36, 24 September 2006 (UTC)