Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Joseph Barnes (Irish doctor)

Joseph Barnes (Irish doctor)

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Absolutely no evidence of notability. Appears to be the typical "lived a long life" spam coming out of the WOP project. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 02:25, 11 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Medicine-related deletion discussions. Jupitus Smart 04:06, 11 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. Jupitus Smart 04:06, 11 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep Added few references including from The Irish Times and from Google books, hope it helps towards notabilityBetterSmile:D 07:40, 11 July 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bettersmiley (talk • contribs)

Keep If this person is notable, it's not because of elderliness. But in my view, the Irish Times Appreciation and the mentions of his work on leprosy in the two scholarly books and in The Rotarian are enough to establish general notability. The blurbs from the hospital website and the ICROSS website would not be enough to establish it, but they're useful back-up. I think Bettersmiley performed a WP:RESCUE. David in DC (talk) 14:29, 11 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: This person is notable because of Irish Times Appreciation. - Ret.Prof (talk) 14:29, 12 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
- @David in DC and Ret.Prof: I'm not sure I agree. Note that the piece in the Irish Times is an obituary, not an article. It is written by a family member; note the author's name is Mary, as is one of his listed surviving children. An obituary written by a family member does not establish notability. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 04:48, 16 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dunno why we should assume Mary England is Dr. Barnes' daughter Mary. That's not indicated in the Appreciation. And a death notice is different from an obituary. A death notice is usually written by a relative and not subject to the editorial review that an obituary would be. An obituary is an article written by a journalist and subject to the editorial review that makes publication in a reliable source an indicator of notability. This looks like an obituary and therefore an indicator of notability. David in DC (talk) 00:27, 20 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To address Rob's concerns
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Onel5969 ^{TT me} 13:28, 18 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@David in DC: I've received permission to state the following: Per ticket:2017060210012566, the obituary is wholly written by a family member. I can make no further comments on the contents of the ticket. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 07:53, 22 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

If you can say no more, then this still appears to be an obituary, which is an article subject to the Irish Times' editorial review and not a death notice, which is not.David in DC (talk) 00:12, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@David in DC: GNG requires independent sources. Whether there is editorial review or not (and I've written an obituary that underwent no review, so this distinction is not at all obvious) doesn't change the fact the source isn't independent of the subject when it is literally written by the subjects family. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 00:27, 23 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: He passes WP:GNG. 100.40.125.198 (talk) 12:42, 22 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Additional sources noting Dr. Barnes' work on leprosy: Healing Bodies, Saving Souls: Medical Missions in Asia and Africa, The Spiritual in the Secular: Missionaries and Knowledge about Africa, Para-States and Medical Science: Making African Global Health. David in DC (talk) 14:28, 24 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades^Godric 03:59, 26 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This article was around for a year and a half before his date of birth or living status was even included, so as much as I am no fan of WOP longevity fancruft, this article isn't a product of it. There is evidence of notability, not strong admittedly, between the sources listed in the article and this discussion, which appear to allow it to meet the criteria at WP:N. Canadian Paul 12:14, 27 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep He has clearly done a lot in his long career, his longevity is merely a testament to the full life he's lived. Longevitydude (talk) 22:32, 1 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]