Talk:No. 164 Squadron RAF

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Info about the Books and Articles I've included in the article

Hi, apologies for the language of these being spanish, but I believe that they satisfy the criteria for "reliable sources" required by Wikipedia Verifiability policy and related guidelines.
I'm including below additional information about these books and newspaper articles (links) that is not allowed by the templates used (at least, in the version I've used!):

Books

"Alas de Trueno" 2º Edition

Author: Claudio Meunier

Ilustrations: Carlos A. Garcia

Edited: 2005

Publisher: not available

Foreword by Pierre Clostermann

More info (including summary and cover) at http://www.firmesvolamos.com.ar/publicaciones/alas2.php (in spanish)

"Nacidos con Honor"

Autor: Claudio Meunier

Edited: 2007

Publisher: Grupo Abierto, Buenos Aires

More info (including summary and cover) at http://www.firmesvolamos.com.ar/publicaciones/nacidos.php (in spanish)

The author's website (home: http://www.firmesvolamos.com.ar/home/index.php in spanish) has a wealth of information, including pictures and profiles of several ariplanes flown by argentinian volunteer pilots (see some at: http://www.firmesvolamos.com.ar/galerias/perfiles.php)

Links

Just a couple of (online) articles related to the surviving Argentinian RAF/RCAF volunteers in the Argentine newspaper "Clarín" (both retrieved on 04-09-2008):

Los argentinos que pelearon en la Segunda Guerra, Clarin, 07.08.2005 Interview to 4 surviving anglo-argentinian volunteers.
Condecoran a aviadores argentinos que pelearon en la II Guerra para Gran Bretaña, Clarin, 08.04.2005 Report about the ceremony at St. Clement Danes church, remembering the 3000 argentines (including 600 pilots) that fought in WW2 on the allied side.

Regards, DPdH (talk) 01:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not all the pilots were from Argentina

Trafford, from New Zealand_"http://aircrewremembered.com/trafford-george.html"

Baggs (1922-2012), from Canada (We had Belgian, Frenchmen, South Africans, Rhodesians, myself a Canadian, an American)_"http://www.thememoryproject.com/stories/654:bill-mitchell-baggs/" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 (talk) 12:19, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Argentine British Community Council ("http://www.abcc.org.ar/memorial"), some 150 pilots and aircrew members from Argentine lost their lives in action or accidents in 1939-1945 in the ranks of the RAF, RCAF, FAA (Fleet Air Arm) & WAAF (female pilots). Only one was from No.164 Squadron: David B. Bridger, killed in flying accident in 1942. The 164 was not an Argie squadron, but a squadron under the patronage of the British community from Argentina (funds raising campaign Wings for Winston Foundation of Buenos Aires). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.8.98.118 (talk) 11:19, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Excerpt from the book Normandy:the Real Story, by Shelagh and Dennis Whitaker: Bill [Baggs] was the only Canadian [sic] in 84 Group, 164 Squadron, RAF,_"a regular united nations of pilots" from eleven countries that flew in support of the Canadian Army.

It was not composed of Argentine volunteers

As I have pointed out, it was a "donation squadron" supported by the huge and affluent British community in Argentine. The No.164 lost some pilots in action, including at least 3 squadron leaders: Peter Leonard Bateman-Jones (UK) and Desmond McKeown (UK, Irish?)and Ian E. Waddy (New Zealand) , plus John M. Bryan (Wing Commander, he led 164 Squadron in action)(UK) and one who ended up PoW (Russell)(UK). None of those pilots killed in action were from Argentina. When the unit was activated in mid-1942, it seems there were only 2 Argentine pilots: David B. Bridger (killed in flying accident) and Ronald Sheward (later transferred to other squadron). A typical fighter-bomber squadron was made up of over 20 pilots. The 164 Squadron was a run-of-the-mill RAF squadron: pilots from the UK, the Commonwealth and occupied Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.33.192.150 (talk) 11:30, 4 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Australian losses in No.164 Squadron: Bruce A. Schaefer, Ernest A. Roberts, Norman L. Merrett, and Douglas W. McCulloch.

I DO REPEAT (SIGH): NO.164 RAF SQUADRON WAS NOT COMPOSED OF ARGENTINE VOLUNTEERS. IT WAS NOT AN ANGLO-ARGENTINE SQUADRON. IT WAS A RAF DONATION SQUADRON NAMED AFTER ITS DONATION COUNTRY: ARGENTINA. MOST OF ITS PILOTS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ARGENTINA.PUT AN END ONCE AND FOR ALL TO THAT URBAN LEGEND OF THE ARGENTINE SQUADRON. THERE WERE HUNDREDS OF ANGLO-ARGENTINES IN THE RAF, OF COURSE, BUT BY NO MEANS AN ARGENTINE SQUADRON. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.139.118.211 (talk) 13:07, 22 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Of course any of them was argentine, look this airplanes http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL868/13057851/23235444/388324911.jpg , https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MWVDE6hqIks/UhleZFE6GwI/AAAAAAAAIWI/PI_89t446nA/s400/75_build.jpg , https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-v9ljELh71Y4/Uhle1vJ04mI/AAAAAAAAIWY/djpF9M-uUuU/s1600/220px-Francis_Sampson.jpg , https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uHN423RCiN8/Uhlnqz0HcFI/AAAAAAAAIYQ/BeCMTBAq988/s1600/0f190cdfb9c7dd62040f8f348f5d2045o.jpg , https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lcjsdy-2rbw/UhlWb_-b9sI/AAAAAAAAIUc/OzttRIJQYOo/s1600/1209323875f.jpg, or de infamous EL ROMPECULOS http://imagecache5d.allposters.com/watermarker/15-1552-EI7DD00Z.jpg.152.170.7.61 (talk) 03:23, 17 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Explain what has to do a picture of an anglo-argentine pilot in India and Burma (Arakan) with a squadron based in the UK and, after D-Day, in Western Europe. What I say is that No. 164 Squadron was not composed of Argentine pilots. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.38.69.212 (talk) 12:55, 28 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

An Argentine fighter pilot that NEVER was in 164 Sq.: Michael Henry Le Bas ("Pancho"), from Rosario, squadrons 234, 610, 601, 241. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.47.97.15 (talk) 12:20, 8 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A 2nd Argentine donation squadron: No.263 Squadron"Fellowship of the Bellows-Argentine"

See Fellowship of the Bellows.

"http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/presentation-spitfires.html/2" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.33.192.150 (talk) 13:25, 5 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

And a 3rd: No.692 Sq. "Fellowship of the Bellows". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.47.97.15 (talk) 10:37, 13 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Brigade Piron's edit on 1 August 2017

If there were MANY Argentine pilots in No. 164 Squadron in 1942-1945, give us their names. Once again: of the some 20 pilots of this unit who were killed in action or in flying accident in 1942-1945, only one was Argentine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.47.97.15 (talk) 11:58, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comparison: Argentine and non-Argentine losses of No. 164 Squadron in 1942-1945

Including killed in action, killed in flying accident and prisoners of war.

From Argentine: 1.Bridger.

Non-Argentine: 1.Bateman-Jones (BRITISH), 2.Mc Keown (promoted to the rank of RAF Flying Officer on 1st November 1934, BRITISH nationality), 3.Bryan (BRITISH, born in South Norwood, South London, in 1922; he was Wing Commander and led no. 164 squadron when he was shot down), 4.Waddy (NEW ZEALANDER, prisoner of war), 5.Russell (BRITISH, prisoner of war), 6.Trafford (Gisborne, Auckland, NEW ZEALANDER), 7.Teather (BRITISH, born in Sheffield in 1922), 8.Dennison (Grand Pre, Nova Scotia, CANADIAN), 9.Young (CANADIAN, prisoner of war), 10.Schaefer (AUSTRALIAN)), 11.Roberts (AUSTRALIAN), 12.McCulloch (AUSTRALIAN), 13.Merrett (AUSTRALIAN), 14.Fisher (BRITISH), 15.Fowell (BRITISH), 16.Napier (BRITISH), 17.White (BRITISH, from Tilbury, Essex, 1923) and 18.Moore (BRITISH). To be confirmed: Hammond-Hunt, Jones, Wilson and Lawston (Note: these 4 pilots seem to have had forced landings in April 1945 in Germany, either after being hit by enemy flak or due to an engine failure; Hammond-Hunt in Kluis and the balance near Neumunster, but all of them seem to have survived_"https://home.kpn.nl/been0319/stories6.html")).— Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.47.97.15 (talk) 12:16, 24 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A pilot from No. 164 Squadron who survived to the war but died in a plane crash in Canada in 1946: Lawrence Victor Kirsch, from Yorkton, Saskatchewan, Canada. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.47.97.15 (talk) 12:16, 31 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

RAF single-engine British-Argentine fighter and fighter-bomber pilots killed in WW2 (KIA and KIFA).

1.Bridger (164 Sq. Argentine-British ), 2. Ch. G. Deck (222 Sq.), 3. J.F. Deck, (56 Sq.), 4. Gillitt (41 Sq.), 5.Holland (183 Sq.), 6. Laing-Meason (43 Sq.), 7. Lett (124 Sq. Baroda), 8. MacDonald (93 Sq.), 9. MacKinnon (73 Sq.), 10. McComas (265 Sq.), 11. Spring (604, 89, 125 and 265 squadrons), 12. Saunders (186 Sq.), and 20. Smith (129 sq. Mysore). Total: 20. From 164 squadron: 1. Percentage: 5%.