Talk:Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

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June 2005 – February 2006

Can somebody please explain this?

At certian points in the film, (especially in the scene where Tifa and Cloud are unconscious in the church) I have noticed a gray wolf-like creature appear(possibly in the same species as Red XIII). What it is, or why it is there, is not explained in the film. So I scour FF7 and AC articles on wikipedia and no clue is given as to its identity. Can somebody clear this up for me? 4p0s7l3

-They explain this in the trivia section but here its a little bit shorter explaination: During the course of the film, there are three very distinct references to Cloud's "lone wolf" status: When Tifa first calls him, there is a lone wolf standing near the implanted sword. When Cloud passes out next to Tifa shortly after finding her in the church, there is a wolf standing in the flowers a few feet away on the overhead shot. The wolf also appears at the end of the scene in the Forgotten City, standing by the lake where Aerith's body rests. Finally, during the white light/death scene, a wolf walks up to the unconscious Cloud. It was stated in the Advent Children Reunion Files production book that the wolf, known as the "Cloudy Wolf," represents the deepest part in Cloud's psyche, and appears in response to some burden he is carrying, as well represent him being a "lone wolf" since he seemingly severed himself from his friends and family. The areas the wolf appears in are likely related to whichever of Cloud's burdens it has appeared in response to. Incidentally, several items of Cloud's seem to resemble, or are based off of, wolves: His earrings, actually match the wolf-head pendant on Cloud's shoulder pad, as does his signature ring which is seen on Tifa's right hand, Barret's left hand, and on a necklace worn by Denzel. Also, his motorbike is named after the wolf of Norse Mythology, Fenrir, which is also a summon monster in other Final Fantasy titles. J-Axe

I could swear that that tidbit wasn't in the trivia section before, but I may not be the most perceptive person on Earth. Anyway, Thanks a lot! 4p0s713

Link

The #4 reference link for the Madien who travels the planet on xhost is not longer available. I think the web address has changed. J-Axe

WTH

"Then Afterwards, if you press the left arrow key on your dvd remote control (this only works on the dubbed special edition dvd) it takes you to a fanservice animation based around what really happened when reno and rude dropped the ground when kadaj was in the room, they werent beaten up...they were worn out from hours of kadaj loving. i accidently clicked the left button and i was surprised that square-enix would support such fanservice. Alas! i was happy....all over the dvd remote...yes, i was one happy fanboy" - The last line is obviously vandalism, I have no clue about the rest.

...Okay, the rest is so obviously vandalism. Why would Square, or Nomura for that matter, throw yaoi onto the DVD? urutapu 13:38, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the whole thing s vandilism. We would've heard about it earlier if it were true. Ryu Ematsu

That is not fanservice, the whole thing is vandalism. If Square Enix wanted to do a bit of fanservice, it would involve:

A: Aerith being ressurected. B: Finding out who Cloud really loves. C: Aerith being ressurected and Cloud falls in love with her.

Split Blade Beam?!

I've seen the movie and the final battle. There is no way that, he did a "split Blade Beam". When Cloud did blade beam earlier in the movie, he had a blue aura around his sword. In the final battle with Sephiroth, he did a spash down which look like Braver. I, then, played it in slow motion. A beam didn't come out of the sword. The sword hit the ground and the force of the impact made the dents and whatnot. Thus it was Braver. In the movie, some of the Limit Breaks are hard to identify, so I can understand how someone could make that mistake. Ryu Ematsu

By the same token, he had a blue aura around his sword when he performed Braver against Bahamut SIN. However, in the original FFVII, Blade Beam can and will split when used against multiple foes, so it is a capability of the attack. Ryu Kaze 20:57, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I forgot all about that. But it still looked more like Braver. Blade Beam actally had a beam come out of the sword. The move he did on Sephiroth didn't have a beam. Ryu Ematsu

Actually, it does. Watch it frame-by-frame and you can clearly see the blue energy waves. Ryu Kaze 15:01, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it was a combination attack.

Is the rain Aerith's limit break?

Hey people, does anyone know if the rain that starts to fall in Aerith's church is the same as aerith's limit break, of which I have forgotten the name? I don't think there is any reference made to it within the movie, but it could at least be interesting - I know it is to me - but on the other hand it could have no place in this particular article. I'll leave it for discussion/speculation... --Groovemaster D. 12:10, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, wasn't looking very good and found a reference to the limi break already. My bad. --Groovemaster D. 13:30, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Cloud and Tifa, married or not?

Does anyone know if Cloud and tifa are married? It seems to be implied within the movie when Tifa and Cloud are sitting in the room after they've awakened from being unconscious due to their wounds. The camera zooms in on Tifa's hand and, if my memory is correct, she had a ring on her ringfinger. I also seem to recall, although this as well could be mistaken, the dialogue implying that the two of them are at the very least in a close relationship, be it due to their working together, taken care of Denzel and Marlene together or a marriage. --Groovemaster D. 12:53, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Even if sufficient fancruft existed to prove they were married, which there's not, the article wouldn't benefit from it due to the NPOV policy. Interesting thought, though. ~ Hibana 01:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

They are not exactly married. If anyone listened to the flashbacks occuring in Cloud's mind as he is going to the Temple of the Ancients, on one part, Tifa will comment on how they are not a real family, so that basicilly means their relationship hasen't deepened yet.

Story

I highly recommend condensing it by at least 35-40 percent. Deckiller 04:24, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I could not agree more. I am working on it as we speak. --Megan 17:01, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I personally would recommend condensing it even further once the film's released in English-speaking countries -- like to two or three small paragraphs. There's good material in there, but the question has to be asked: Just how much is that going to matter once the film's released in the rest of the NTSC countries and the PAL countries? An even better reason to condense it is that we don't have 10 page summaries of the Final Fantasy games themselves (though Cloud's article sure takes a stab at it), or of other movies, and it's extremely non-encyclopedic to do this.

The only reason I haven't tried doing it myself is because there's a lot of people who can read English but don't have access to seeing the film right now, so this lets them know what went on in it. That's why I suggested waiting until after the film gets it US/European/Australian release. Last Order's page is also like this, but I actually think it should be left alone, considering that it's not even going to get a release outside Japan -- and that only 77,777 copies of it were made, meaning not even all the Japanese fans got a shot at it. Advent Children, though, definitely needs to be trimmed in a couple of months. I'll take care of it myself when the time comes.

Above all, it needs to be trimmed by that time, because if it isn't, there's just going to be weeks of editing false information out of the summary due to people who didn't understand the movie, which is exactly what's had to be done here on this page since September as it is. Ryu Kaze 20:45, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I've divided the synopsis into five parts (prologue, first, second, third act, epilogue) based on what I feel to be the major divisions in the film. I've put each of these in quotations as it is based on my opinion and is in no way official. I also feel that the description of battles in this synopsis is excessive and could be more succint. I'll be making changes shortly. Flooch 01:06, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Holy crap. It might be easier to revert to an earlier (and shorter) version of the plot summary and editing that instead. Flooch 07:19, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

You actually did very well, so pat yourself on the back. There were a few bits of missing critical plot info, and the wording needed to be heavily tightened in some areas (mainly things dealing with presentation and sentence breaks), but I've seen to all that -- and added what I feel are more logical "act" breaks -- and it all came together really well. I applaud you. I'd been wanting to do it, but wasn't ready to take it on myself. It was far easier once someone had the gears in motion. Great job.

You can check the changes I've made here. Again, great job. Ryu Kaze 21:09, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I've made a sweep of the whole thing, and it's extremely good right now. We need to the same thing over at the Last Order page, though. I'll probably take care of that. Kudos once again. Ryu Kaze 21:45, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Ryu, it's a great improvement. As wikipedia articles go, the plot summary is still a little excessive, but it'll have to do for now. I haven't seen Last Order, so I'd only be able to help with copyediting. Thanks ^_^ Flooch 21:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome and thanks. I'll get to the Last Order page tomorrow. Again, great job. Ryu Kaze 02:20, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

We'll have to condense the page more later (after the NA and European release) to a plot summary instead of a story summary, but for now, this is appropriate, I think. I'm loath to prevent those who can't yet see the film of knowing what happens, which is why I think we should leave as much detail in as we currently have (but only that much detail). Once the NA and PAL releases come, however, it needs to be shortened as as the Last Order page has now been. Ryu Kaze 17:21, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, I think we can still touch on the beginning-to-end nature of the film, but we don't need to go into describing the events so much as we need to just say that they happened, touching on the highlights and getting to the end. Ryu Kaze 13:40, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Since no one's objected after all this time, I assume everyone's okay with this getting a trim now that the film is available the world over. I'll be carrying it out some time today. Ryu Kaze 20:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

SO whaat, now there's NO story section at all?

I think it's just a fluke.

I don't understand the cellphone scene when Could's cell phone falls into the water and all his messages are being said at one time because after all of that Aerith talks which I don't get either.Basicially I don't get that whole thing with cell phone in to water.HELP??MemoriesOfThePast2, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Clone names and Meanings?

Often the names of characters in AC and FF7 have a meaning behind them, i.e. Sephiroth - Tree of Life, Fallen leader angel of the Sephira, etc. Anyone know the meaning behind Kadaj, Loz and Yazoo? I've heard of a band or group of singers named Yazoo, and I think it's a type of flower, but I'm not sure.

              They are not clones of Sephiroth, they are Sephiroth's spirit, divided into 3 entities.

meaning

Well I can tell you the meaning of Bahamut an I cant give you the details yoll have to search that on your own iam to sleepsy right now so ill just say this Bahamut is an Islamic Gaint Sea Creature which is supposed to be larger then anything else it is said that when even a man looks upon it he would faint as his senses would be overloaded from the sight of the creature.

But *yawn* thats all I was able to put out lookk yourself youll get interesting results *yawn* good night

--Marduk of babylon

ex-SOLDIER?

The article states and follows an ex-soldier named Cloud Strife, but I was under the impression that Cloud was actually never in SOLDIER. Did I miss something? Unless the article is not referring to the group, and is using a generic term. That would be confusing, I'd think.

Well, cloud is presented as an ex-SOLDIER at the start of the game. This turns out not to be true, but having this article dive straight in the his 'corrected' background may be somehwat confusing for readers. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 18:07, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

In the movie he says himself that he believed himself to be an ex-Soldier, so really it would probably be best not to say he was an ex-Soldier at the beginning of this article which may even confuse people more.

How would it be confusing? If someone is in a position to be confused by it(in this case the only way that could happen is if they never played FFVII), then why are they reading this article? It'd be like watching Return of the Jedi without ever having seen Star Wars or Empire Strikes Back...they're responsible for not knowing the material built upon in the earlier works. Anyone who finds FFVII spoiled in any way, or finds themselves confused about Advent Children due to lack of familiarity with the game deserves what they get. Nezu Chiza 17:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

If someone watches the movie, then they have to have played the game to understand it. And, if they played the game, then they would know that Cloud wasn't in SOLIDER. It should state that he wasn't in SOLIDER.

I agree. It should be made in a way that will hopefully eleminate any confusion, but is also true to the series.

Rendering time?

Can anyone find out any information on rendering time for the movie? Average time to render a single frame or whatever? 209.232.147.200 18:51, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Planet Scar Syndrome, not "Star Scar"

The kanji hoshi (星) is used in the Japanese name of Geostigma, yes, but, please people, do not revert this meaning to "star" anymore, despite that being what hoshi means. In the Compilation of FFVII titles -- including the original game -- hoshi is used for "Planet." With the name "Geostigma" it should be obvious to anyone that this is what was meant. Ryu Kaze 23:13, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Handedness

The trivia section on handedness was incorrect in that it omitted Cid Highwind, the most infamous lefty in FFVII (and is shown in the movie wielding his spear with his left hand aside from the fact that he wields it in the game with his left hand).

His handedness coincides with his namesake, Kain Highwind, who was also a spear wielding lefty.

I cannot see why Tifa was listed as a Lefty (Reno clearly is, as he's seen wielding his nightstick with his left hand). Tifa uses incidental items such as telephones with her right hand, scrubs dishes and mugs with her right hand, reaches for her gloves with her right hand, generally uses her right hand as a "strong" hand in the church fight and grabs on to Cloud with her right hand in the boosting sequence. Did this get started because the closeup of her putting on her gloves is on her left hand? There is no other conclusiveness in either the game (but it has been years since I played it) or the movie.

Also, isn't Barrett necessarily a lefty (though probably was originally right handed before losing it)?

kefkafloyd 02:09, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Trivia is trivial, but this seems a little crufty to me. It would be different if the characters already had laterality as an attribute, like the Final Fantasy IV characters. I don't think the average reader will really care what character uses what hand and when in the movie. ~ Hibana 02:28, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

That may be, but it was already there when I found it, and removing it really isn't my place, but I felt that I should explain the correction I made. The other fact that Kadaj and his gang were lefties was probably an allusion to Sephiroth, who was clearly a lefty in the game (and in the movie). kefkafloyd 23:19, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Red XIII

--12hernn 19:47, 25 May 2006 (UTC)Does anybody think Red XII should have had a bigger part? What about the expiriment with Areis and Red XIII? Does anybody even know what I'm talking about?!?- 12hernn

Ya I think he could have played a larger role. But if you look back in FF7, The Main role he had was taking them to "GrandFather". After that point he didnt really affect the story. Still I think there should have been more of him. Plus he is a freakin badass. I mean if you had him in your frontyard no one would F*&%$#@ rob you (written in tre barret style).

Genisis

That's just a matter of opinion, considering the only major characters in the entire movie are Cloud, Tifa and Kadaj. Observation 14:46, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I just think it kinda SUCKS. 12hernn 04:40, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Denzel's Question

In the last section of this article, there is a line that states:

"In the film, Denzel asks Tifa during the Bahamut fight scene, "Who is he/she" when Vincent and

Yuffie run by. This is possibly a reference to FFVII refering to Vincent and Yuffie being optional characters"

-- I do not see the point of this, as the characters being optional does not affect their genders at all. Also, Cloud and Tifa both say Vincent and Yuffie's names out loud respectively. Not to forget the Denzel was never in the original game anyways, therefore he WOULDN'T know them anyways. Observation 15:45, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

...how do their genders figure in again? o__o Denzel's exact Japanese line is "Ano hito wa?" which can be interpreted as simply as "Who's that?" or "Who're they?"—urutapu 05:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Velvet Nightmare inspired by a Kriss dagger?

Just a thought, but I think so since the design is pretty similar although Velvet Nightmare is not sinuous. Any opinion for/against it?

Trivia-ish

Well, this is what I was referring to: http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/9585/15xj.gif When viewed upside-down, the scene of Cloud tearing through a motorcycle resembles the flashback of Jenova falling... anyone else notice this or give a crap? Probably not Trivia material, but I figured it was worth a mention at least here. Goroliath

The trivia section is already reference-malnourished. If you can please find a source for it, it would be better because the original research present is putting the article on the verge of requiring a cleanup. ~ Hibana 22:08, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

A source for it? Sorry, don't quite understand what you're referring to... the source is the movie itself. Goroliath

Wait, you have two scenes of a face slowly moving sideways, one of which doesn't tilt like the other does, isn't from the same exact angle and is upside down... and you figure this is some kind of a connection? That's not even coincidence, it's overactive imagination. Ville V. Kokko 05:37, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Realism

"The characters would often jump hundreds of feet in the air or get knocked off of enormous structures and walk away unscathed; things that the characters could never do in the original FF7."

This sounds perfectly reasonable for a level 99 character. Or a level 60 character assuming they beat the game early. The point is you're Godlike at that stage, and the over the top action scenes are meant to demonstrate that. Especially the gun shot to the head. In no way does that imply realism. Instead, the viewer might ask how much HP the shot took off, knowing that the characters can survive guns, explosives, fireballs, giant shards of ice, blasts powerful enough to destroy earth, and a supernova. Human realism might be a level 1-10 character, and even then such a character would surpass what's "normal" for the average person. Think of a level 20+ character in D&D. Or the Greek gods.

A gunshot to the head? You mean when Cloud first encounters the bad guys on bikes? I daresay that was deflected by his goggles. (Furthermore, I would guess Yazoo shot them off on purpose to show that he could have killed Cloud right there.) Surely HP's were an element of the game that the makers would remove when they could. They are a necessary concept for games, but would make fights silly and uninteresting. The fights in the movie don't involve most attacks hitting and the party taking more damage eventually succumbing from a number of nonlethal blows. (Except maybe the fistfight, but that's different, that would almost make sense.) Sure, Cloud is so superior he can fight people with guns with a sword, but he does that by deflecting bullets.

I agree that the general level of unrealism in the game makes just about anything in the movie appropriate. And that the concept of the "high-level" characters is very game-like. But I'm thinking of the unrealism of deliberately exaggerated things like limit breaks, summons and the size of some opponents, not mere artifacts of simplified combat system like being able to survive gunshots (even at low levels, incidentally) because a more realistic system where the characters should have to be able to dodge them entirely for most of the time to survive would have been immensely more complicated.

(And if the plot required it, I'm sure the characters could in fact take an indefinite amount of damage, not just what would be realistic for their HP. Which should be much lower than their opponents', anyway, since it couldn't surpass 9999. And the new Omnislash would have to be less powerful than the original since it involves less hits and each can only possibly do 9999 damage. Also, I didn't see any potions being used...) Ville V. Kokko 02:05, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

My point in putting that statement in the article was not to say that the movie lacked realism, but that it strayed away from the traditional fighting style of the game. Obviously it lacked realism. (I mean, I don't see anyone running around summonig huge dragons in real life). But, that's okay. The game itself lacked realism by the characters ability do things like use magic and what not, so putting that stuff in the movie is fine because their getting the material from the game. The fact that the characters can jump up hundreds of feet in the air was not the type ot thing you saw in the game, however. (Yes, they do make radical jumps and things during limit breaks, but those aren't hundreds of feet up.) I am simply saying that it felt more like watching an episode of Dragon Ball Z rather than Final Fantasy. I am not even saying that it was bad; I thought it was good movie and that the fighting was cool. I am merely stateing that it was differet.

I get what you're saying. The characters might be strong enough to survive those enormous falls, but they don't fight like that.

The creators stated that they used the movie to depict the characters the way they wanted to in the game. Perhaps they wanted them to jump around hundreds of feet in the air and such, but the good ol' PS1 couldn't handle it.--Soban 17:37, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Remember, this is a Science Fiction Fantasy story. The impossible is likely to happen with no explanation, because it is a FANTASY story.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS Y IT'S CALLED FINAL FANTASY. THAT'S WHAT THE PEOPLE ARE 

SUPPOSED TO DO IN SUCH ACTION THRILLING MOVIED. I MEAN, THE JUMPING STUFF ANIMATION IS PROBABLY

ONE OF THE MOST MEMORIABLE SCENE IN THIS MOVIE. THE ANIMATION AND THE SPEED, HIEGHT AND MOVES

OF THE CHARACTER IS SUPERB. ONE OF THE GREAT ADVANCES IN MOVIE TECHNOLOGY. i just cant seem to

tell you guys how great the action scence were.

No one said that they weren't great, but merely that they were untrue to the sereis. A great example of that is as follows: during the fight with Bahaumat, Yuffie runs straight up the wall. The characters of ff7 do have some super-human abilities, but they can't fly and defy gravity.

In FFX Tidus was able to hold his breath underwater for what seemed like hours during Blitz. In FFVIII Rinoa was possessed by a witch and would sprout wings and shoot magic. Any and all "powers" and "abilities" that any of the characters in FF games have are all unreal, just like the characters in Advent Children defying gravity. The reason it would first said that the Bahamut fight scene was unreal (aside from the fact that the characters were facing a giant summoned dragon creature, which should have threw the whole reaslism thing out the window) was that everyone seemed to try and compare it to the first game (FFVII) and what could and couldn't be done but again you are comparing a movie that is a huge leap in CGI technology in the early 2000's and a game that was a huge leap in CGI technology back in the mid-90's comparing the two is diffulcult to do, it would be like if they took FF for NES and remade it for PS3. Other than just the characters and story it would basically be a different game. J-Axe

The examples you listed were all from different games. You can't make a movie based on one game, while using another that is cpompletely different as a source. I'll say it again: Yes, the characters in the game are super-human. But they cannot fly around and jump hundreds of feet into the air. This disscusion got started based on the idea that the fighting in the movie differed from the game, which it did. Period.

Yes it did differ from the game a little bit, but how did u no that they can't jump hundreds of feet into the air? and have u ever heard of improvision? there might be flaws or mistakes that the movie writer want to make up and make the movie more excitin

You may be right, but in saying that you prove my point. You said that there might be flaws or mistakes, which would mean that they can't do those things (jump hundreds of feet, etc.) in the game. It was considerably more exciting than if the characters had only stood in lines, attacking in turn, but it caused the movie to differ in the style of fighting. That's my entire argument: that it was different. And I know they cant because they don't do it.

So you are saying that if the characters do anything but stand still in lines and take turns, it's going to alter the style of fighting? In that case it would be automatic in transition from game to movie and absurd to even point out. If, on the other hand, you allow them to do something else, they're bound to be doing a bunch of things they were never seen doing in the game. Jumping hundreds of feet into the air does seem far-fetched, but ruling it out as something that couldn't have happened in the game (if only they could have shown combat better, say) is still a judgement, not a matter of evidence. Why? Because evidence straightforwardly examined would suggest the characters were also unable to do things like move more than once in several seconds during combat. Sure, it's common sense that THAT wasn't meant to be so, but with less obvious things you have to decide just how different is too different, and that's your judgement.

So to say it was different period is completely redundant, and you can't hide behind "evidence" when you state that you personally felt it was TOO different. A term like "arguably" might be more honestly used there.

Well we know that they can run and jump, etc. because we've seen them do it, so they don't have to just sit in line. But, for example, Yuffie can't run up a wall and defy gravity. It has to be cannon.

How does that pertain to changing the style of combat? Also, she could just only do it during battles when you can't tell - I don't think even Yuffie would run up walls just for the fun of it.

Anyhow, comments in the article pertaining to this are ones that don't cite their sources, aren't they? It seems that they're only there (or rather, there aren't other comments that negate them) because some people have figured that it's an opinion worth keeping untouched and have kept editing it back. Which brings us to the point that what is included as representing fan reactions can't be decided by arguing here anyway. I just wonder how many fans actually thought the battles weren't true to the spirit of whatever. Ville V. Kokko 18:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I just used Yuffie as an example of how the combat was portrayed differnently. Heck, look at the battle between Cloud and Sephiroth. They were flying through the air - are you gonna tell me that that happened in the game? And to say Yuffie did it when you don't see it, well, that could be true, but using that argument then you can make anything plausible. "Cloud's relly an illegal immigrant from Mexico who fights crime by night- they just don't show it." Besides, I'm just saying that it was differnt. That's all. And it does pertain to the article, because the section was one about critcism. The whole section is one of opinion, seeing as how it's based on fan reaction, therefore it has no citations. As to how many fans feel that way, I don't know exactley, but there's at least one. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.125.172.252 (talk • contribs) .

I'm not making positive claims about the characters based on what is seen in the game. You (if you're the same unsigned person from before) are making negative claims based on what is not seen, and I'm pointing that out. I couldn't "make anything plausible", I'm talking about the creators themselves doing something.

And I'd say combat is in any case different from cut scenes and such of characters just walking around and stuff. There's not even any need to do many of the same things. So it's still true what was said earlier that of course the combat was different, since it wasn't just people standing in lines, and that's a completely redundant thing to point out because it couldn't possibly have been the same.

I'm not sure of all relevant policy, but even fan reactions certainly aren't supposed to be posted here on the basis of who decides to make what edit; and even if they are, on what basis has it been removed several times when people have pointed out why this argument about the battle being different didn't seem valid? That's just another opinion (regardless of who might win this argument), and from what I've seen it definitely has more than one person behind it. Ville V. Kokko 08:08, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, the only way to get rid of the opinions would be to delete the whole section. The section is 'recption', which is nothing but opinion. You can't talk about how well it was recived without bringing up opinions, regardless of what they are. So as long as there's a reception section, then how it was recieved is relevant. And the only reason I said 'you' could make anything plausible was simply a refrence to the fan community in general being able to make an argument; not specifically you as Ville V. Kokko. It does merrit mention, because the fighting was almost like watching DBZ os something. But, is you agree that it's different, then we're on the same page at least.

Kadaj's Rant

I was just watching this. During the scene at the forgotten city, Kadaj's rant looked a little familar. Aside from his glowing, all you have to do is change a few words and he sounds like this guy or this guy. Kinda creeps me out. Tell what you think of my opinion if you watched the movie.--Lionheart Omega 02:51, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't know much about what Pastor Ted says, and I never listen when Osama Bin Ladin talks because anyone who would kill innocent people is full of crap. But, in reference to what you are saying and to be fair, I would like to know what words you would change. I mean, if I say 'I think that you are neat', and you change the word 'neat' to 'stupid', then the meaning is dramatically altered. I am just curious as to what exactly you're refrencing to.

SHIN?

Where did you mistranslation of SHIN to SIN come from? As far as I can tell neither SHIN or SIN is ever mentioned in the movie or the credits. Every site that mentions SHIN is a JP source and nearly every source that mentions SIN is for the action figure. And also pretty much every article on this site where the name of this Bahamut is mentioned it is different from another. Should there be a consenses on which name to use? User:J-Axe

• The release of the Bahamut figure in the US has it named Bahamut Sin. Seeing as how this is official, and what they chose to go with, I'm not sure how you get the idea that it's necessarily a mistranslation. And since that's what they use in the US, that's what this english article should use under the policies for such things. Also, please sign your comments. Nezu Chiza 08:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • oh crap forgot to sign it, well it kind of is a mistranslation because SHIN is Japanese for Tremor and Tremor is the name for a Japanese jet plane. All the Bahamuts are named after jet planes. Its very much in the same vain as Shera and Sierra where they sound the same in Japanese but in English the sounds are different. User:J-Axe

SIN is the official English named used, and this is en:Wikipedia, so...—ウルタプ 16:24, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay that is cool, I just thought since the figure was the only thing that was actually labeled Sin or SIN and that even though they sound the same in Japanese the spelling SHIN has a meaning in Japan unlike SIN (but I guess it could be argued that neither have a meaning in english) that the encyclopedia would want to go with that but if SIN or Sin (that atleast needs clarifacation) is the offical english it only makes sense to go with that. J-Axe

I myself don't care abouth the name so much as a Romanization, since "shin" could be Hepburn romanization and "sin" could be Nihon-siki.—ウルタプ 20:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Memetic

Does anyone know what "memetic" means? Kadaj says something about a "memetic legacy" and I have no idea what he means by that. There's no entry for "memetic" in Wiktionary either. - The preceding comment was made by Grevenko Sereth 21:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

When you put in Memetic into a dictionary you get meme, I think memetic is pass tense or something like that for meme. Here is the definition. meme - a cultural unit (an idea or value or pattern of behavior) that is passed from one generation to another by nongenetic means (as by imitation); "memes are the cultrual counterpart of genes". J-Axe

Gene, genetic, meme, memetic. In other words, memetic just means "of or to do with memes", with memes being units of information. It's a pretty opaque way of saying that, though Jenova is dead, her goals and motives live on, first through Sephiroth and then, by extension, the SHM. --86.143.215.106 10:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Marlene

Does anyone know why Marlene was taken by Loz? She didn't have the geostigma and yet it seemed he clearly wanted to take her.

For the same reason he didn't kill Tifa, it would bring Cloud. Tifa would tell Cloud and Cloud would (did) come after them to get her back. J-Axe

Link to Final Fantasy Forums.net

Alright, I was wondering if it would be okay or it is time to add a link to Final Fantasy Forums.net? Seeing as Advent Children.net is already in the list, why not place FFF.net as well since it's the only and huge community forum to discuss about for AC? Please post back. The link is right here - http://www.finalfantasyforums.net/final-fantasy-vii-advent-children.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darkishblade (talk • contribs) .

You are linking to a forum with 7 threads. That is not notable enough to warrant inclusion as external link. -- ReyBrujo 23:40, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

And so what if it got only 7 threads? Well, there is like over 800 of posts, as you can see for yourself. And remember that the forum is sort of new so yeah. What do you expect? A site that has been launched for about 6 months must have at least over 10,000 of threads? I don't think so. Give it time and it'll even grow bigger as it is already. ;) Darkishblade 03:49, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

If it is new, why it is necessary to include in the article? I like to say that "first notability, then Wikipedia". Neither articles nor external links should be added to increment the traffic to a determined site; at the time of inclusion, they should be notable on their own. Maybe in 6 months the forum would be considered important, but right now, it is not. Sorry, but if we were to allow young or non important forums, the article would grow out of hands. You can consider adding the link to Open Directory Project, though. Check http://dmoz.org/Arts/Animation/Movies/Titles/Final_Fantasy_VII_Advent_Children/ -- ReyBrujo 04:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Nothing against your forum but its just a forum. On Wikipedia external links must add something interesting or informative to the article. Most forums do not do that, in fact most forums are just for fans to chatter. Trust me I've been through enough forums to know and with threads like "Favorite character?", "Favorite Scene?", "Is this [insert character name] hot or not?" and so on it does not add information and background to the article for people who are looking to learn about FFVII. You could have the nicest and coolest forum on the net but without intresting and informative things to read you have nothing to that would translate to a Wikipedia link. And if there are forums as links on Wikipedia its probably for a discussion that disputes facts on here. J-Axe

Closed for Business Sign

If only I could confirm this properly... as I understand it, this is a poor translation. Could anyone fluent in Japanese and English please take a look and verify? My friend is back at Japan for the season and won't be around to give a proper explanation. Jachra 03:42, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Ha, it's a joke. You might've missed the humor. Yuffie is giving Cloud a "Closed for Business" sign so that he'd close the Cloud Delivery Service and get on with life, stop dwelling on how he "failed" to save Aerith and Zack, and move on. For a while Cloud believed that he couldn't save anybody. Tifa referred to it as "dilly dally shilly shally". His friends have believed him to be far greater than just a delivery boy. (Even his enemies have believed in him, far more than he believed in himself) 71.99.11.235 00:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

I was going to integrate the trivia-section into the article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Trivia_Cleanup), but I honestly couldn't find anything worth keeping in the main text. I'm posting it here in case anyone disagrees, just please don't repost the entire section.

• When Loz's phone rings after the battle with Tifa in the church, his ringtone is the beginning of the battle "Victory Fanfare" theme from Final Fantasy VII, which is fitting as Tifa, at first, was thought to have won the fight.
• Many limit breaks are performed in the movie including Cloud's Blade Beam, Braver, Climhazard, Finishing Touch, and a new version of Omnislash, called Omnislash Version 5. Tifa, Red XIII, and Barret also appear to do some variation of their limit breaks as well.
• After being defeated, a single black wing sprouts from Sephiroth's back. This is a reference to Final Fantasy VII's final boss theme "One Winged Angel." A revised version of that piece — called "Advent One Winged Angel," and featuring different lyrics with a heavy metal accompaniment — is heard during the final battle between Cloud and Sephiroth. Sephiroth is also portrayed with a single black wing in the Kingdom Hearts series.
• The once-playable characters are shown bearing pink ribbons, keepsakes of Aerith. Everyone wears them at their upper left arm except Barret who has it at his left wrist, and Vincent where the knot appears to be from his right arm; Red XIII carries it at his front left leg. The Ribbon is also a recurring item in the Final Fantasy series; characters wearing it are usually granted immunity to all status ailments.
• Several signs seen in the film were posted by the World Regenesis Organization (WRO), the organization headed up by Reeve Tuesti in Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII. One particular sign has what appears to be Cait Sith's head as the W.R.O logo, a reference to Reeve himself.
• Although there is no direct connection between the two films, elements of Square Enix were also involved in the production of another CGI Final Fantasy-based film, Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. That film's box office failure is cited as one of the factors leading to the creation of the merged company Square Enix.
• According to one of the animators (interviewed for one of the DVD featurettes), the filmmakers almost made fight scenes more realistic, but chose not to, otherwise they might as well have filmed a live-action production with real actors.
• After Vincent rescued Cloud in the Sleeping Forest, Marlene asked Vincent if he had a mobile phone so that she could call Tifa, due to Cloud having lost his own during his fight with Kadaj's gang. Vincent didn't have one, however, and was embarassed by Marlene's reaction of near-disbelief to Vincent's lack of a phone. Further, Cloud informed Vincent that he would let him know how his attempt to find forgiveness of his "sins" went, a matter that would likely be of personal interest to Vincent considering his own history of accusing himself of committing sins, gesturing with his hand that he would call him. Vincent would be unable to keep in touch with Cloud and his other comrades easily if he continued to conduct himself without a phone. Therefore, he intended to buy one and "catch up with the times" so to speak, as he breifly says to Tifa before the fight with Bahamut Sin, "Where can I buy a phone?". As for whether or not he ever got around to doing this, as can be seen or, more accurately, heard, in Reminiscence of Final Fantasy VII, Vincent does acquire a mobile after the events of Advent Children. In Dirge of Cerberus Vincent has a cell phone with his 'Cerberus' symbol on it.
• A UH-60 Blackhawk can be found in the movie, being piloted by the Turk, Reno, and later on the highway with Reno and Rude.
• During the fight scene in the forest near the Forgotten Capital between Cloud and Kadaj's gang, Cloud at one point jumps into the air and fends off both Loz and Yazoo using two swords. His movements in this scene are closely similar to the fighting, including camera angles, of Roxas in the Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix secret video titled "Another Side, Another Story [deep dive]". Like Advent Children, Kingdom Hearts is also one of Tetsuya Nomura's projects, and the CG team that created the "Another side, Another story…" and "deep dive" FMV trailers also worked on Advent Children.
• During the course of the film, there are very distinct references to Cloud's "lone wolf" status: When Tifa first calls him, there is a wolf standing near the implanted sword. When Cloud passes out next to Tifa shortly after finding her in the church, there is a wolf standing in the flowers a few feet away on the overhead shot. The wolf also appears at the end of the scene in the Forgotten City (after Cloud's phone reaches the bottom of the pool in which it fell), standing by the lake where Aerith's body rests (though the camera is panned far out, and it is rather difficult to spot the wolf--when a tree in the foreground passes, the wolf has disappeared). Finally, during the white light/death scene, a wolf walks up to the unconscious Cloud. Perhaps the final wolf's dissipation is Cloud's realization that he isn't alone, and has people he can indeed stand by (the photo after the end credits).
• It was stated in the Advent Children Reunion Files production book that the wolf, known as the "Cloudy Wolf," represents the deepest part in Cloud's psyche, and appears in response to some burden he is carrying, as well represent him being a "lone wolf" since he seemingly severed himself from his friends and family.
• The areas the wolf appears in are likely related to whichever of Cloud's burdens it has appeared in response to. Incidentally, several items of Cloud's seem to resemble, or are based off of, wolves: His earrings, when looked at closely, actually match the wolf-head pendant (possibly a buckle of some kind) on Cloud's shoulder pad, as does his signature ring which is seen on Tifa's right hand, Barret's left hand, and on a necklace worn by Denzel. Also, his motorbike is named after the wolf of Norse Mythology, Fenrir, which is also a summon monster in other Final Fantasy titles.

File:FF7-AC Cameo.jpg

The Final Fantasy VII game cover reflection can be seen on the left side of this shot.

• There is a cameo appearance of the Final Fantasy VII game cover early in the movie. When Tifa turns to walk into Clouds office to answer the phone and the camera pans to the right, if paused at the right moment (or played in slow motion) the reflection of the cover is very briefly visible on the back of the black phone base.
• The memorial in Edge city has the words "Keep on Rockin in Midgar" written on it.
• An early CG test seen in Reunion Files was created in order to test lighting effects. It is a short video of Cloud riding across Midgar rooftops on his motorbike, which is slightly different looking from the final version.
• During the last scene, as Cloud watches Aeris walk away, a piece from Final Fantasy IX's airship theme "Hilda Garde 3" is heard briefly.

--Pax:Vobiscum 16:40, 23 October 2006 (UTC)