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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 24.145.133.16 (talk) at 06:48, 28 December 2004. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

For older discussion, see /Archive1, /Archive2, /Archive3, /Archive4(TeX), /Archive5

Nominated article

Template:SampleWikiProject

  • I nominate Lebesgue integral. Charles Matthews 08:17, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)
    • Hello Charles. I do like the Lebesgue integral article, although it gets bogged down toward the end -- it seems like the discussion sections can be tightened up quite a bit. Comments? Wile E. Heresiarch 02:33, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
      • Always room for improvement. I chose it mainly because it touches all the major bases (motivation, some history, towards applications, picture, real content), so is quite a good template. Charles Matthews 06:31, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)
  • I second the nomination for Lebesgue integral. I'll also nominate Bayes' theorem. Wile E. Heresiarch 02:33, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Other articles I think are good in their ways are Boy's surface (graphics) and Nicholas Bourbaki (perspective and NPOV - I have worked on this one). Charles Matthews 09:19, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Using images from the St.Andrews Uni. they believe are public domain?

There are a lot of mathematicians' biographies at the Uni. of St. Andrews, featuring photos that they believe are in the public domain, yet haven't kept appropriate records about every image history. Is it OK to upload such images to Wikipedia? How should I tag them? BACbKA 21:25, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I can't provide a reference page on this, although maybe someone else can, but I recall a user contacting them about using materials from their website and they said no. That being said, I'm not sure if that applies to materials that even they may not have permission for, or if they were referring to text only. I believe that the user that contacted them did post their reply on their user page or a subpage of their user page. CryptoDerk 13:20, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)
Look at User:Wile E. Heresiarch, bottom of the page, for this. Charles Matthews
Thanks for your reply. I would presume this is about the biographies proper though, and not the images they themselves describe as public domain to the best of their knowledge. Have you followed through the above link on copyright and read what they say themselves about their images? BACbKA 14:20, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
My opinion, FWIW, it that a fairuse tag would be appriariate, since its wording mentions the public domain; and I would take the trouble to point back at (and copy the text of) the St. Andrews webpage in the Image page. In the event that an issue is ever raised, at least we will have an audit trail which supports our contention of fairuse. Just my opinion, though. --Tagishsimon (talk)
Why fairuse and not pd, if the wording mentions the public domain? I've tagged commons:Image:Aleksandrov_Aleksandr_1950s.jpeg as PD meanwhile and did like you suggested wrt pointing back and copying the text. Everybody is welcome to re-tag/re-annotate there if I did smth wrong. Thanks a lot to everyone for the guideance! BACbKA 22:28, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Considering that they seem conscious of image copyright issues, I'd wager that these images are quite likely to all be public domain. We have enough images falsely marked public domain that if we did use them in print, some careful filtering would be necessary in any case. Independent verification for each wouldn't hurt, though. Deco 20:33, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Thanks. OK, I've asked around various people about the only specific image I have uploaded from there so far for the Aleksandr Danilovich Aleksandrov article, and they also think the image is in the public domain since they believe they've seen it in the Soviet media back in the 50s. Independently, I am working to get a solid specific permission to use a much better image from [1] depicting A.D. in 1952, so it's temporary in any case. BACbKA 22:21, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I came across the University of St Andrews site independently (googling Paul Halmos), then remembered this discussion. I agree that what they say about PD is probably fine. While at st-and.ac.uk, I looked up Eugene Dynkin, an old advisor of mine. The picture they have of him is just a lower-quality version of the picture he has on his personal web site. Just another data point to keep in mind. Dbenbenn 02:15, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Spoof edits alert

User:Jim Slim vandal attack

User:Jim Slim, clearly mathematically literate, has been adding plausible nonsense to general topology and functional analysis page. Please will all look out for 'tweaks' of mathematical articles that are jargon-filled rubbish. There was a whole hoax page. This is an exploratory vandal attack, testing us.

Charles Matthews 14:23, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Since the user page claims that none of his edits are good faith, I suggest that we don't seek any good addition he has made amidst the rubbish, but rather have an admin block the account and do a blanket automatic revert. BACbKA 14:49, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I blocked him right after Charles put the note on the page. CryptoDerk 15:27, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)

There was another hoax page created recently, which I deleted. Can anyone verify that Cayley-Newbirth operation matrix is genuine? I now think it is suspect.

Charles Matthews 22:00, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I checked it on google (and also "Bayleigh equivalence") and only references I found were copied from wikipedia. I think it's a hoax. Samohyl Jan 00:43, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It is now at VfD: Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Cayley-Newbirth operation matrix. Please come and vote - there are good reasons. Charles Matthews 22:47, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

We now have an 'admission' of the hoax nature of the page. I am taking this forward at User talk:ExplorerCDT. Charles Matthews 12:55, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It appears this isn't the first issue with this user, see Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/ExplorerCDT. Terry 13:44, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Current position re User:ExplorerCDT

See User:Charles Matthews/Hoax investigation for deleted user talk

User talk:ExplorerCDT is now being purged of what I write there, allegedly unread (fingers-in-ears and adolescent abuse). The current and unsatisfactory position with this user and hoax material is this:

  • claims has edited here only since September, and as an anon only as the presumed User:66.171.124.70;
  • claims no sockpuppets;
  • claims mathematics background not much more than some calculus;
  • claims has not edited mathematics pages;
  • claims not the author of the hoax CNOM page;
  • claims no knowledge of that page;
  • claims no associates or easy access to mathematically-educated persons;
  • claims no knowledge of other recent hoaxes here;
  • no explanation of behaviour at Vfd;
  • no explanation of allusion to 'clues' at Vfd.

Certainly no apology at all. Standing against this user are a number of things. User page has a number of loudmouth points, in particular against civility and 'hatred' of conventions on lower-case (a possible gripe?). In effect it admits user has tested the system with pages to see how quickly they are deleted.

The 66.171.124.70 edits include vandalism and cutting mentions at Vandalism in progress. Starts with edits to a secret society page, a recurring interest (which is one reason why thinking a 'conspiracy' to hoax is not really far-fetched, at least to me). Abuse in edit summaries, edit wars, tasteless edits, generally obnoxious behaviour. There is no real reason to doubt this is the same user (cf. continuity of the Rutgers University edits) given that the first half of the IP number has been admitted.

The whole pattern is suspect, to me. There are some scholarly edits. If you asked me 'is this a potential malicious and disinformative editor?' I would say yes. No smoking gun as far as hoax mathematics, though.

Oh yes, and claims inside knowledge of the Mafia.

Well, happy holidays everyone. Charles Matthews 19:12, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • I don't need to answer to you, with your Torquemada-esque Inquisition, sneakily worded insinuations, and boldfaced accusations (without merit). I've given you the answers your required. No matter what I say, you will still think I'm responsible for the CNOM hoax. I didn't even know Wikipedia existed when it was created. Sure, this is going to be rude and hostile behavior but take it on its face value. Go fuck off you pompous windbag! —ExplorerCDT 20:34, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It is being mooted that the ArbCom should be brought into this. Now, that really would be inquisitorial, and an adversarial process where just about anything you ever wrote here could be brought up. Think about it. Charles Matthews 20:56, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • I have, and everything points to you on a crusade, and being an ass about it. —ExplorerCDT 21:10, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I think that disinformation added to WP by bad faith editors is a potential problem to which there is no single, simple solution. I think hoaxes are no joke at all. What do you think, sir? Charles Matthews 21:13, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • I would agree, except I take your question as a loaded allegation that I'm responsible for the hoax (which I am not). —ExplorerCDT 21:46, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hard to explain your behaviour at VfD, then. You don't have a particular interest in mathematics here. You don't have that much background in it. You decide to make circumstantial claims that the page is genuine, citing a classic text which just happens to be one of the longer works you could have mentioned. Given your remarkably arrogant approach generally, and your specific evasiveness about the 'clues' ... Ah yes - reminds me to ask, what were the 'clues'? The thing does fit together like a crossword; while

matrix = womb

is general knowledge, the

John von Neumann -> John Newman -> James Newbirth

and

Bayleigh -> Cayley, Caesar cipher/caesarian

things (assuming I'm not imagining it all) requires a certain kind of puzzle-oriented thinking. Charles Matthews 22:13, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • The user page itself didn't sound that aggressive to me, but ExplorerCDT certainly seemed like he tacitly admitted he knew about the hoax. His behavior since then has been very odd. -- Walt Pohl 22:24, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • I agree with User:Waltpohl. I left a comment at ExplorerCDT's talk page, which was quickly deleted [1]. Dbenbenn 22:27, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Yes, ExplorerCDT's actions seem very odd. I, like many other editors I suspect, would like some explanation of them from him. Paul August ☎ 22:40, Dec 24, 2004 (UTC)
  • At this point in time, I don't trust ExplorerCDT enough for an explanation by him to be sufficient. I feel that a third-party investigation should be undertaken. --Carnildo 08:39, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • He has claimed that his initial support of the hoax was based on a misreading of Ablowitz & Stegun, and has almost promised to back this up with a page reference, see User_talk:Paul August and User_talk:ExplorerCDT, although he claims currently that his copy of A&S is packed away due to a move. If that page reference is provided and checks out then I think that would be a satisfactory explanation of events and no further action or investigation would be necessary. Benefit of the doubt, etc. Terry 23:58, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
    • In my opinion, he's obviously lying. Here's why I think so: Anyone with even a moderate amount of mathematic sophistication would have immediately recognized that article as being pseudomathematical nonsense, and a number of the other participants in the VfD discussion did point this out. ExplorerCDT not only claims to own a copy of A&S, but also implies that he spends enough time actually reading it that he can not only recognize that the topic is covered there, but also that he can recolect that it is referred to in "several mentions and footnotes", without even having to check. But someone who owns and browses A&S with that degree of seriousness has far more than enough mathematical maturity to immediately recognize that the CNOM article was nonsense, and that even if it weren't nonsense, it is not the sort of thing that is covered in A&S. What we have here is someone who has heard of A&S but who is not sufficiently familiar with its contents to realize that his claim was an obvious lie. -- Dominus 01:32, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
      • In my opinion, Dominus, you're a jackass who hasn't seen straight for years...that's the problem with your head so far up your ass. —ExplorerCDT 02:09, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
        • Your comment would be more convincing if you actually refuted his argument. I suggest you try this before resorting to insults. Isomorphic 07:08, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
          • Sorry, but there's no sense refuting the deluded close-minded rantings of someone (Dominus) who should have been institutionalized long ago. Only the insane engage in exercises of futility, and I'm not close to being driven insane (yet). Just rage. —ExplorerCDT 07:11, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Further point, though. 66.171.124.70 comes up as Herndon VA when I do a whois search. Given the data below, do you really expect us to regard that as a coincidence? Charles Matthews 11:28, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • Yeah, I wonder if in your investigative work, Detective Matthews, you came to realize that IP address is one of a block of IP addresses owned by Verizon. The Virginia legislature gave benefits an tax write-offs to computer companies, and most large internet providers have located their headquarters there (including AOL, fyi). For someone who appears to be somewhat intelligent, you really are clueless. I live in NYC and haven't been to Virginia in 4 years. —ExplorerCDT 18:09, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)


I've opened an RfC on this: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/ExplorerCDT 2 --Carnildo 23:01, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

User:199.248.201.253

This IP number clearly had a close interest in the CNOM page, wikifying it and linking from Arthur Cayley. Later this IP number created the hoax Bryleigh's Theorem page. Other vandal edits (I'm going to ban anyway on the strength of a long track record), including impersonations. Geography: Maryland/North Carolina? I'll do a whois on some of these IPs. Charles Matthews 10:29, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

That's Frederick MD for 199.248.201.253. 65.177.73.18, original creator, comes up as Reston VA. Charles Matthews 10:41, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Text of the Bryleigh's Theorem page:

In differential equations, Bryleigh's Theorem is associated with the existence of and validity of solutions to these equations.

In general, Bryleigh's Theorem states that if we have a solution to a differential equation, and this solution satisfies the differential equation, then the solution is a "valid and true" solution, no matter how we may have obtained this solution. Among other important guarantees, Bryleigh's Theorem guarantees the validity of the guess-and-check method of solving differential equations, in which we try to guess elementary antiderivative solutions.

Bryleigh's Theorem is first noted in a 1785 work of English mathematician Jayne Bryleigh (1720-1801). It is an important generalization of Kimber's Third Theorem and Bonnie's Slope Field Lemma.

Bryleigh's Theorem is often also applicable in other realms of mathematics, such as linear algebra and group theory.

Charles Matthews 11:10, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Also a possible link to University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Charles Matthews 11:16, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Qualculus

"Qualculus is a branch of mathematics involving the modeling of changes in state...." Google turns up only 5 hits, none to academic sites. search. This smacks of hoax to me. See also Roidiphidol by same anon author, with no Google hits. If none of the math experts around here have heard of Qualculus, I will vfd. Michael Ward 18:36, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This has actually been used to design computer systems but is not well known. Some companies where it has been used are Lucent, IBM and OCLC.

The update to this shows some significant material which demonostrates factual computer knowledge. It also has examples of how it would be used to design a database. This is not out of line with computation.

The past projects this has been used on include IBM's Corepoint SA, Lucent Technologies 7RE PTS switching system, and OCLC RMS intergration project.

It has been mostly used by computer consultants. There have been some white papers on this but not widely distributed. Since it was originally developed by University of Wisconsin students, it is regarded as public domain.

Note, above comment is by 24.145.133.16, one of the two major anon editors to Qualculus. Michael Ward 19:21, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Both articles look bogus to me. A couple of "white papers", do not, a branch of mathematics make. Either a hoax or "original research". Unless better references are provided both should be deleted. Paul August ☎ 19:38, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)

Looks very bogus. I'll ask a friend who's at Wharton later today, since this isn't my area, but "baka" (the Baka matrix) means stupid in Japanese, I believe. CryptoDerk 19:45, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)

In this case, Baka is a person: http://ssa.org.ohio-state.edu/images/gallery/tb-baka-family.jpg 24.145.133.16

I agree that it is very suspect. Note that Qualculus says that the project was listed in Apple Computer's "Wheels for the Mind" in the winter 1986 edition, while [2] (follow the link, then click on "Wheels for the Mind" in the sidebar) suggests that the first issue of this magazine was in Nov 1998. However, I would recommend waiting a few days and making absolutely sure that the article is bogus before listing it. Note that we also had to argue a bit before the article on Cayley-Newbirth matrix was accepted as a hoax.

Wheels for the Mind came out about the time the Macintosh came out, which was around 1984. 24.145.133.16

To the anonymous contributor 24.145.133.16 (cross-posted to User talk:24.145.133.16): This should be rather easy to resolve, since you are apparently familiar with Qualculus. Could you please give some verifiable information, like precise references to the white papers or the participants of the Wisconsin project and any reports they wrote? Thank you. -- Jitse Niesen 20:26, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
OK, I asked my friend who is getting a Ph.D. at Wharton. He states "This is bullshit. I've never heard of any of this and... my area IS matching supply with demand". CryptoDerk 20:49, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)

This has got to be a hoax. It looks like they took SQL as the model, and then added a bunch of vague verbiage. -- Walt Pohl 05:52, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

SQL is a common database language so any subject about databases would probably fit SQL. The purpose of the example is to use something that is familar and build on it. I have used this method to design databases. I have also used it to design Java programs.

I have found it much more useful then flow charts or UML because it lends easily to asking questions, where as other methods tend to pigion hole you into a particular design.

If no one here uses it, that's fine with me. I don't need a PHD from Wharton to figure out how to design something.24.145.133.16

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