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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by PermanentE (talk | contribs) at 22:53, 16 December 2019 (→GISP2 Greenland temperature reconstruction). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Naming of the article

I find the title "4.2 kiloyear event" rather odd. It seems that in the literature it is more commonly called the "Holocene Climate Change". I find 1900+ hits for HCC and not a single one for "4.2 kiloyear event". I would not mind seeing it changed. The other point is that "Holocene Climate Change" more accurately describes what this is about. --AnnekeBart (talk) 21:21, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't find any evidence in literature for the name "Holocene Climate Change". Remember, the Holocene is a fairly long period, and there have been a number of abrupt climatic changes ("events"), not only this one. So actually the name "Holocene Climate Change" would be pretty much ambiguous.
"4.2 ka event" (or variants) is actually commonly used name for this event, see [1] for a recent example. --bender235 (talk) 23:20, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Holocene Climate Change" is used [2], [3], [4] and in many more books and articles See Google Book Search. But I see your point that the term refers to several changes that took place over a long period of time. The 4200 BP event being one of the last ones. I retract my suggestion :-). Thanks for the feedback. --AnnekeBart (talk) 02:19, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I can see, "Holocene Climate Change" refers to the broad climate change from Pleistocene to Holocene, not a specific event within the Holocene period. --bender235 (talk) 02:53, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you. Still think the terminology is odd. Will it be called the 4.3 kiloyear BP event 100 years from now? But that is not our problem :-) You mentioned it's called the 4.2 KY BP event in the literature, so that's our only choice for now. --AnnekeBart (talk) 13:10, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Before Present means 1950. It probably still will in 2100. --bender235 (talk) 14:14, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I'm being too literal I see. Thanks. --AnnekeBart (talk) 16:09, 25 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Before continuing to irritate people with ambiguous jargons, please name this in our standard, correct, normal, and unambiguous calender date of 2.25 ka cal BC, or, because it is not as narrow as suggested by this date, "the middle of the 23rd century BC". Thank you.2003:DD:F19:5A2B:89E1:2FBD:BED6:ECB8 (talk) 05:42, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Further, regarding the Greenland temperature diagram, the assessment is correct, however, there is no "THE", but many more ice cores with around six interpretations, each of which differing somewhat against the others.2003:DD:F19:5A2B:89E1:2FBD:BED6:ECB8 (talk) 05:42, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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The global map

The global map taken from Wang et al. (2016) paper is wrongly described. The error was made in the paper itself. The caption both in the paper and in Wikipedia says "The hatched areas were affected by drought or dust storms, and the dotted areas by wet conditions or flooding.". However, it is obvious that the areas of the greatest droughts in this period of time such as Egypt or Akkadian Empire (in Mesopotamia) are marked wrongly as flood areas. Also the very paper states that "In China, records from mountain glaciers and lacustrine sediments document the occurrence of drought in the north and flooding in the south at around the same time" which is reverse of what is shown on the map, as described. Friendly Neighbour (talk) 20:35, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Friendly Neighbour: You're probably right! It would be nice to have another reference though (another map?) in order to back-up the change in caption... पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 20:46, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@पाटलिपुत्र: I provided it on the Talk page of the 4.2event article. Friendly Neighbour (talk) 19:19, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Friendly Neighbour: ? Can you give a link? पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 19:23, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I did but than I screwed up. Here it is:
https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S027737911731003X-gr1.jpg
It is a direct link to Figure 1 of a paper which is beyond the paywall (I have access to it). The paper is Railsback L.B. et al., 2018, The timing, two-pulsed nature, and variable climatic expression of the 4.2 ka event: A review and new high-resolution stalagmite data from Namibia, Quat. Sci. Rev., 185, 78-90, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.quascirev.2018.02.015
The map is not so beautiful as the one we use (just red and blue dots for dry and wet anomalies) but it everywhere it has the dots they show the inverse of what "or" map does.
Friendly Neighbour (talk) 19:26, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Friendly Neighbour: Thanks! All of this makes sense, and I'm glad you could find a good source to back up your remark! Since I'm the one who initially added the source and the map, I'm OK if you remove the current reference and rework the caption with your set of references. Based on that, I will add a note on the map at Commons reflecting what we have said. Thank you for your vigilance! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 19:45, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure how to do that. It would be dimple to replace "hatched" and "dotted" but we need to explain this. Should a second sentence be added, stating that the original caption had the markings reversed basing on (citations)? Correct? Friendly Neighbour (talk) 20:01, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Another problem is that the name of the image file itself has the same error. Should we change that as well? Friendly Neighbour (talk) 20:05, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Friendly Neighbour: OK, I'll do it, no problem. Thanks again! पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 20:14, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Friendly Neighbour: Done, and thanks again. The name of the map will be corrected in the next few hours. पाटलिपुत्र Pat (talk) 20:27, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GISP2 Greenland temperature reconstruction

There has been a brief back and forth over this graph in the last couple of days. Could I remind you of Bold-Revert-Discuss -- so instead of replacing and re-removing it with only Edit summaries as explanation, perhaps we could work out here what the issues are and seek consensus. FrankP (talk) 20:00, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • My explanation in the original edit was clear: "Remove Greenland Gisp2 ice core graph because no citation is given for the GISP2 being related to the 4.2ka event. And GISP2 data is known to be problematic. https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-what-greenland-ice-cores-say-about-past-and-present-climate-change".
  • The reverters explanation that he doesn't "believe" my citation is not a valid argument.
  • The inclusion of the graph is original research, the description "4.2-kiloyear event has no prominent signal in the Gisp2 ice core that has an onset at 4.2 ka BP." is not supported by any citation.
  • As my cite explains, the original GISP2 data is 20 years old, we now have better, newer, more comprehensive data available then GISP2. The original GISP2 data is mainly used today by those pushing an anti-climate change agenda to confuse people.
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