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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Ninetoyadome (talk | contribs) at 04:33, 7 September 2020 (→‎Guba Mass Grave). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Blocked on request by user Aviartm

Hello, apparently I was blocked by you on request of Aviartm - he had reverted my edits for more than 3 times in a 24 hours period himself. Please also take action against his user account. Thank you. Michael.alexander.kaufmann (talk) 13:02, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hounding

Hi there. I started to revert some of this users edits [1] (on articles that are on my watchlist), such as Yazid I which ignored WP:RS and MOS:LEAD ([2]). Instead of taking my advice and reading the rules, he started hounding me, reverting two of my edits which I did a few days ago ( [3] and [4]). --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:15, 30 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Hey Ed, I saw your talk page notification here. I had a run-in with Abbasquadir at Jiah Khan and Talk:Jiah Khan and Sooraj Pancholi and Talk:Sooraj Pancholi.
    1. The initial interaction involved them violating copyrights by posting Jiah Khan's full suicide note at both of these talk pages. I redacted the content and provided a clear explanation about why I redacted it (copyright violation), but Abba restored it on one of the talk pages, somehow thinking he knew better about how you could only violate copyrights if the content was in the article.
    2. After that, I had to remove potentially defamatory content at the Jiah Khan article, because (assuming the best of faith, and not just lousy English skills) Abbasquadir was trying to summarise a summary of a POOR source that misquoted the contents of Jiah Khan's suicide note. I don't know if it was a language barrier issue, but the fact that Abbasquadir couldn't figure out that the content was problematic was, in itself, problematic. The result of that, was that potentially defamatory content about Sooraj Pancholi was introduced into the article. You can see it here:[5][6][7] It starts with a totally inappropriate section heading, and then just blossoms from there.
    3. I reverted that first introduction at roughly 21:11 19 August 2020 UTC. I then left a talk page comment at roughly 21:24 19 August 2020. The user didn't respond, and then restored the content. I warned them not to do that here, and explained again why the content was problematic, but the editor restored it again here, at which point I went to BLPN, only because BLPs aren't exactly my specialty. I probably would have pulled his editing card at that point, otherwise.
    4. Once at BLPN, which you can see in this version of the page, the user misrepresented the details of this conflict alleging that I didn't provide an explanation, which is obviously untrue, since I provided two.
    5. So summarising: Abbasquadir seems to edit per their whims, they don't seem to care about community standards, they think they know more about copyrights than others, and they don't seem to have compunctions about misrepresenting details. Also, they have been warned about ArbCom sanctions in the India/Pakistan/Afghanistan area here, and for more perspective about their participation style, note how quickly their talk page comments get archived, manually or otherwise, and even note their attempts to erase warnings from their archive. I think you see where I'm going here.
Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 05:38, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
User:Cyphoidbomb, I read your report at WP:BLPN#Potentially defamatory content at Jiah Khan. Your argument is that that Abbasquadir added material to Jiah Khan's article that is defamatory to Sooraj Pancholi and then made some reverts to keep the suicide note in the article. I hope that User:Abbasquadir will respond to the concerns expressed. Fortunately Abbasquadir has not continued to revert at Jiah Khan since 21 August. But the edit wars at Shaki Khanate and Yazid I seem like they could be ongoing, since there were some reverts by Abbasquadir with a date of August 30. EdJohnston (talk) 13:09, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say it above, but I'm not seeking sanctions for this stuff. I'm providing you with supplementary info about the user in case it shapes an opinion about their editing behaviour as part of a community. Regards, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 14:51, 31 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
User:Anastan has been warned about WP:ASPERSIONS. This thread should not become a catch-all for Balkan issues. EdJohnston (talk) 19:45, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hey, Ed. Hope you're safe and well. So, there have been several move discussions in Kosovo-related articles. The better known in terms of daily readership are: Talk:Vučitrn#Requested move 20 August 2020 and Talk:Peć#Requested move 18 August 2020. There have been raised several concerns about canvassing attempts which affect the result. In fact, a similar editing pattern was observed at an AfD I filed a few weeks ago: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Destruction of books in post-independence Croatia. As a result, they have been relisted. Today, an editor (Anastan) who opposed all moves about a week ago, made a series of similar comments across three different discussions[8][9][10] in which he accused Most of the Support users, including the one who opened this request and the one who attacked me just now, opened their account within days and one month to each other, at the end of 2019, during the Wiki Academy Kosovo event. The dates of duration of event lined with our "new neutral users" appearances on Wikipedia. It is obvious that Republic of Kosovo is using new editors again, as we have witnessed several times in the past years they already did, as their national agenda pov pushers and fighters. We already know that they educate new users to use English Wikipedia as pro-Albanian propaganda advocacy tool, and that is strictly forbidden by WP:ARBMAC. and that Admins should be well aware that those requests are very much disputable, and therefor, consensus reached is actually not consensus, but organised and paid political advocacy. It's obvious that Mikola22 who opened the discussion about the title of Vučitrn is not a paid advocacy account. Neither am I, nor is any of the ca. 25-30 editors across all articles - many of wildly different backgrounds - who have supported the moves paid by any government entity. Paid advocacy accusations which concern relations to government agencies are egregious and undermine the integrity of the project.--Maleschreiber (talk) 11:54, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think we all have a common goal and that is to improve Wikipedia articles. If editor Anastan have a problem with that it is not in good faith to go around and accuse editors without evidence. It would be good that such behavior is sanctioned. All of us who have a different opinion about some techniques are probably prepared from "the Albanian secret service"? Such promotion of conspiracy theories only bring nervousness to the editing of Wikipedia articles which is probable the main goal of these false accusations. I expect a clear and concrete move from the Wikipedia authorities that such accusations do not happen again. Mikola22 (talk) 12:25, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Leaving a ping for User:Anastan in case they want to respond. This is not the first time that Wikipedia has had to deal with difficult Balkan-related move discussions. Experienced closers should be able to detect and appropriately respond to any genuine canvassing. The advice in WP:PLACE is still good. EdJohnston (talk) 14:57, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I'm also certain about that - so far all of these discussions have been relisted. The larger problem is not the "canvassing" accusation, because any admin can discern the extent at which this has actually happened or if someone just raised an irrelevant grievance. The problem is that now we have accusations of paid advocacy and relations to a government agency. Honestly, I would prefer these edits to be deleted. Editors can't put forward something that serious without any accountability. I thought that Template:User link pinged editors in the same way as !ping.--Maleschreiber (talk) 15:17, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is so sad to see that move discussions keep being redirected to accusations and conspiracies. I do not want to get involved in such a pointless mess, however, I would like to bring some history to your attention. In 2018 Anastan got blocked for a week for off-Wiki coordination. In a separate case in 2013, some accounts (Psladja1402, Sermonija, Srbin100%, Stublinac) were created the same day, and a few days later Anastan created their userpages(!); one could go on and follow Anastan's example, and say that there was again off-Wiki stuff involved. I agree with EdJohnston that such Balkan issues are messy, and if this round of accusations persists, AE would be the right place. Another admin, @Peacemaker67: has recently made good use of AE to deal with Balkan disruption. Others might find that path useful. However, the hope is that good faith will prevail here, and unproven accusations will stop. Ktrimi991 (talk) 15:54, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • The problem is that Anastan's false accusations remain on the page where important things are discussed. It’s actually throwing dust in the eyes of other editors who would like to give their opinion in this and other case. First I was a Croatian Nazi, now I am Albanian mercenary. Where have I come? I'm just waiting to become a Russian spy. Sorry EdJohnston for reply on this page, I know you have a smarter job to do than dealing with us "spies".Mikola22 (talk) 16:12, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:ASPERSIONs against Mikola22 are getting worse at Talk:Vučitrn so I understand their frustration. --Maleschreiber (talk) 16:43, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If anyone thinks that some comments by User:Anastan should be struck out of move discussions, can you provide a list of diffs here? EdJohnston (talk) 16:55, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
[11][12][13].--Maleschreiber (talk) 17:04, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t think anyone is paid, that’s insane to me. Editors sometimes approach too emotionally. I have tried several times to point out the polarized and very tense atmosphere on Balkan topics. It was wrong to launch several similar RfCs and RMs at the same time, until at least one situation is resolved and tensions calm down. Quality and productive discussion cannot be conducted in these conditions. Bias and canvasing on both sides were obvious. Personally, I am already used to being declared both a “Serbian traitor” and a “Serbian ultranationalist” because I try to balance and add parts that criticize all nationalisms and authoritarian regimes. Admins persistently ignore a lot of my reports for serious offenses that could even endanger me. Only editors who were characterized as pro-Serbian were sanctioned, although much more serious policies violations from the “opposite side” were ignored, including threats, long term abuse, publication of private information, etc. @Maleschreiber: Please stop dragging me into this story. I didn't accuse anyone of anything.--WEBDuB (talk) 16:57, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You put forward some heavy stuff about Mikola22 - regardless of the paid advocacy which I never linked you to - and I notified you that if you have evidence/diffs against Mikola22, you can always report them and both you and they will be scrutinized at AE. But WP:ASPERSIONs are not acceptable in a cooperative environment.--Maleschreiber (talk) 17:04, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That is not true either. I mentioned Mikola22 in just one sentence. It was more a question than claim or accusation. The rest of the message quoted by you was general, it did not refer to any specific editor. You know that very well.--WEBDuB (talk) 17:22, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Regardless of whether there is paid editing happening or not, the fact that Maleschreiber and Crazydude1912 registered and started editing minutes apart is unsettling to say the least, and should be swiftly investigated. [14] [15] Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 19:01, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You "investigated" it with a SPI report, and the conclusion of the admins there was that there is no connection between Maleschreiber and Crazydude1912. Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:12, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The conclusion was that Crazydude1912 wasn't a sock of Maleschreiber (and vice versa). That doesn't rule out meatpuppetry and off-site coordination. For the record, I don't think there's any paid editing happening, but the WikiAcademy Kosovo connection is certainly interesting and I'm grateful to Anastan for bringing it up. Amanuensis Balkanicus (talk) 19:22, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SPIs do not work that way. They do not deal with "pure" socking only, but with meatpuppetry and off-Wiki coordination too. Anastan was reported for socking a few years ago, and they got blocked for off-Wiki coordination. In another case, two accounts concerned with Skanderbeg were reported for socking, and got blocked for off-Wiki coordination. Hence, the result of the SPI report you filed was that Mal and CD1912 are unrelated. If you still do not understand it, you might ask the closing admin for further clarification. In any case, do not say again that Mal and CD1912 have off-Wiki connections without evidence at a SPI, as it all could go to AE for aspersions. Ktrimi991 (talk) 19:32, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Guba Mass Grave

Sorry to bother you with such a mundane issue, but could you please take a look at the edits made by user 89MsHm regarding the article Guba Mass Grave? They keep removing sourced information, just because they dont agree with it. We were having a discussion in the Talk:Guba_mass_grave#Hayk_Demoyan_reaction, but they went and removed more sentences without discussion. Their whole argument is Azerbaijan archives prove it happened, so the Armenian reaction doesnt belong on the page. Same can be said about the Armenian Genocide or the pogroms that took place against Armenians by Azerbaijan, but those articles have a section depicting the Azerbaijani/Turkish side of events. Also, they have broken the 3 revert rule numerous times. Thank you for your time. Ninetoyadome (talk) 04:31, 7 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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