Talk:1872 Scotland v England football match: Difference between revisions

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A fact from 1872 Scotland v England football match appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 28 September 2007. A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2007/September.

Wikipedia

Merge From England v Scotland (1870)

The article on the earlier games is brief, poorly sourced and factually incorrect. It states that the 1870 match "is sometimes described as "unofficial" in Scotland"; not true, the 1870 game is viewed as unofficial by all bodies - importantly including FIFA and the FA - as they were organised entirely by the FA, with no attempt to make the teams fully representative of the two nations. An international match involves teams seperatly organised by different governing bodies: on this occaision the FA and Queen's Park, and later the FA and the SFA. It is not for Wikipedia to contradict those who operate and organise international football and whose prerogative it is to decide what counts as an international or not.

They form an interesting precursor to the 1872 match and are worth discussing; they should not be hidden but they are mentioned in the 'background' section here already, which I think is sufficient. Pretty Green (talk) 11:28, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scotland and England are nations? Grassynoel (talk) 14:19, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When it comes to football, they are. --Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 14:27, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

BAD IDEA. CF Alcock published an open-invitation in a Scottish newspaper inviting homegrown Scottish entries to this 1870 game! This is not at all the "all English" match it is held to be in some parts! It is hardly surprising that the game was only approved by the English FA: it was the only FA in the world! Even the "official" 1872 game was before the foundation of the Scottish FA and therefore was only approved by one nation's FA. Perhaps the first official game should really be the 1873 one and the 1872 one should be subsumed into that page? There is a fair amount of info about this (and the four other early international games). This match is truly the beginning of international soccer and should not be subsumed into the 1872 game in an attempt to dismiss the evidence of where international soccer began.

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 Scotland and England are nations? [[User:Grassynoel|Grassynoel]] ([[User talk:Grassynoel|talk]]) 14:19, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 :When it comes to football, they are.  --[[User:Daemonic Kangaroo|Daemonic Kangaroo]] ([[User talk:Daemonic Kangaroo|talk]]) 14:27, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
+BAD IDEA.   CF Alcock published an open-invitation in a Scottish newspaper inviting homegrown Scottish entries to this 1870 game!   This is not at all the "all English" match it is held to be in some parts!  It is hardly surprising that the game was only approved by the English FA: it was the only FA in the world!  Even the "official" 1872 game was before the foundation of the Scottish FA and therefore was only approved by one nation's FA. Perhaps the first official game should really be the 1873 one and the 1872 one should be subsumed into that page? There is a fair amount of info about this (and the four other early international games). This match is truly the beginning of international soccer and should not be subsumed into the 1872 game in an attempt to dismiss the evidence of where international soccer began.