Talk:1978 Finnish Air Force DC-3 crash

WE don't need to be showing off swastikas on a page about a random plane crash

The picture contributes nothing except a thin justification to fly the most detestable symbol of political hatred of the 20th century in article space. Removed. Simonm223 (talk) 16:15, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

The aircraft in that image is almost identical to the accident aircraft. Wikipedia is not censored, please see Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. - Samf4u (talk) 17:04, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

The aircraft image contributes nothing to Wikipedia and is a hate symbol. WP:NOFUCKINGNAZIS applies. Simonm223 (talk) 17:52, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

WP:NOFUCKINGNAZIS is an essay. Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not is WP policy and carries far more weight. Are you calling me a Nazi? - Samf4u (talk) 18:49, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

I'm saying that it's a nazi symbol that doesn't benefit the page in any way and as such is better off being absent. As you pointed out it's not an actual image of the actual aircraft that crashed but rather a facsimile which contains a hate symbol. Simonm223 (talk) 19:50, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Guys, c:Category:Douglas C-47 in the Finnish Air Force has several images of DO-4 with the Nazi warplane less prominently displayed or not visible at all. I replaced the previous image with a different one which is a Finnish C-47 but not DO-4, but probably any of those would do. There are also non-free images available of DO-10, the actual plane that crashed, but I don't think we can make a fair use case as they're not images of the crash itself. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 21:11, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

The swastika was used by the Finnish Air Force between 1918-1945. It was adopted because a Swedish count called Eric von Rosen donated the first airplane to the Finnish Air Force that featured the symbol in March 1918. Incidentally, von Rosen was later a Nazi sympathizer, but the swastika was adopted two years before the NSDAP was founded and one year before the predecessor DAP was and has nothing to do with Nazism. Here's an article by the Christian Science Monitor that also prominently features a critical view on using it today: Finland used the swastika before the Nazis. Why do they still? It was removed from the official roundel in 1945 because of association with Nazism, but it's still used in some official air force flags (picture). There's no reason not to display it per WP:NOTCENSORED, but I don't hold any strong view whether this particular museum photo should be used. But it's a high quality photo. --Pudeo (talk) 22:15, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for everyone's input on this. Since we don't have an image of the aircraft involved the next best thing would be a high quality image of a similar aircraft. File:Douglas DC-3 (DO-4) Keski-Suomen ilmailumuseo 1.JPG is definitely the best of the museum images. Of the 8 museum images all but File:Douglas DC-3 (DO-4) Keski-Suomen ilmailumuseo 3.JPG have a swastika visible, but it is just a shot of the empennage. File:Finnish Air Force DC-3 N59NA (16117325886).jpg is poor quality and therefore less desirable. If we can reach a consensus here on File:Douglas DC-3 (DO-4) Keski-Suomen ilmailumuseo 1.JPG being used I'll make the change. - Samf4u (talk) 15:16, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable. --Pudeo (talk) 17:30, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

I disagree that that image is the best of the museum images: the topic aircraft is at the top of frame with significant clutter below, and the contrast is poor. If we are choosing from the museum images then either File:Douglas DC-3 (DO-4) Keski-Suomen ilmailumuseo 8.JPG or File:Douglas DC-3 (DO-4) Keski-Suomen ilmailumuseo 2.JPG would be preferable. If #8 were cropped then the aircraft could be centered and it's better illuminated already, and the clutter is minimized. #2 has the aircraft already centered and prominent in the frame, and although the swastika is still visible it is much less prominent. All told I do prefer the image of N59NA, which is an equivalent aircraft to DO-4 and shows it in service, prominently centered and highly contrasted, with no clutter of other aircraft except for one which appears to be identical. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 18:19, 23 February 2019 (UTC)

A search for a different image has been unsuccessful. There are some really good ones out there but not for free use. I've studied the museum images again and think File:Douglas DC-3 (DO-4) Keski-Suomen ilmailumuseo 7.JPG is best. The quality and contrast are very good and the subject is centered in the image. File:Douglas DC-3 (DO-4) Keski-Suomen ilmailumuseo 8.JPG Is a great shot of the museum ceiling but the lighting is glaring through the windows and reflecting badly off the aircraft. File:Douglas DC-3 (DO-4) Keski-Suomen ilmailumuseo 2.JPG is not too bad but I preferFile:Douglas DC-3 (DO-4) Keski-Suomen ilmailumuseo 7.JPG - Samf4u (talk) 15:27, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

Where is this supposed Nazi Swastika. All I can see is the PROPER NON-Nazi swastika used by the Finnish Air Force. This idiot should get his facts right, as Swatikas have been in use for millenia to symbolise peace and harmony!!!--Petebutt (talk) 21:48, 24 February 2019 (UTC)