Talk:2023 Tennessee House of Representatives expulsions

Merger proposal

I propose merging Tennessee Three (Tennessee House of Representatives) into 2023 Tennessee House of Representatives expulsions. There is no need to have two separate articles, especially considering the one covering the representatives themselves is a stub.Estar8806 (talk) 01:18, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

• Agreed. Clear redundant fork, I cant think of anything in the "three" article that couldnt also be in the expulsion one, which isn't that long itself already. --Quiz shows 01:29, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
• Support — There's little to say of the Tennessee Three right now, although the media's terminology of the three representatives involved here should be mentioned. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 01:30, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Support --- they're more or less the same discussion 47.185.92.66 (talk) 02:09, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and redirected that here as it seems like no one disagrees with doing so. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:44, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

"Republicans didn't vote" image

Elli - I don't fully understand the image/map. Who exactly did not vote, are they the same as the "did not support" bunch of Baum, Bricken, Richey, Russell, Sparks, and Whitson? The image/map vs the did not support wording is a little unclear to me. Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 14:50, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

@Shearonink: No. The "did not support" members voted "no" on the expulsion, while the "did not vote" members were present but did not cast a vote for or against the resolution. Elli (talk | contribs) 15:40, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Hmmm. Well, the did-not-vote vs voted-No could be misunderstood by readers. Did Not Support could be construed as Voting No or as Abstaining/Not Voting at all. I think it's important to know exactly what transpired, the terminology should probably be changed/made clearer. Shearonink (talk) 15:52, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

"Voted for expulsion" vs "voted against expulsion", maybe? Elli (talk | contribs) 15:55, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

How about "Voted for Expulsion" & "Voted Against Expulsion" & "Abstained" (or "Did Not Vote"). Shearonink (talk) 16:03, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Expulsion isn't a proper noun. I've updated the captions but feel free to change them more if you'd like. Elli (talk | contribs) 16:04, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Merriam-Websiter & Cambridge English dictionaries both include it as a noun, the capitalization was simply my mistake. Shearonink (talk) 18:04, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Map Corrections and Table Ideas

Darren Jernigan's District is incorrectly labeled as a Republican seat, when he is a Democrat. I also think that a table should be added to show who voted differently on each vote similar to the 2023 US House Speaker Vote. AddInfinty (talk) 15:13, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

@AddInfinty: no? Jernigan's district is labeled as a Democratic seat. Feel free to add such a table, though. Elli (talk | contribs) 15:42, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

I got Jernigan's and Baum's districts backwards. The similar shape threw me off. But Baum being the only Republican to vote against his Party on all 3 votes should be noted in the writing as well. I'll make such a table when I get home. AddInfinty (talk) 16:13, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Requested move at similarly named article

See Talk:The Tennessee Three#Requested move 7 April 2023. Shearonink (talk) 18:29, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Did the 3 representatives vote?

According to multiple sources I've read, all three of the representatives actually voted on the resolutions before the two were expelled. In fact, one source, I believe it was from WKRN, actually described Pearson's vote as the deciding vote that prevented Johnson's removal. This also appears consistent with the maps provided. Bneu2013 (talk) 20:02, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, I am a bit confused. Based on these three sources, HR0065, HR0064, and HR0063, there are three times that a "Johnson G" voted no and zero times that "Pearson" or "Jones" voted in the Votes section. And because of how the Tennessee General Assembly website works, I am not sure how to confirm if they voted and their names were removed or if they did not vote. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:44, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the did now, but regardless, we should include in the percentages of the vacant/didn't votes as their share of the total number of possible votes, which shrunk from 99 to 98 after the first expulsion. Bneu2013 (talk) 09:26, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes. Johnson and Pearson voted no on all the expulsions while Jones voted no on his (before being expelled). Elli (talk | contribs) 10:17, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Both the prose and the boxes are inaccurate here and should be corrected to match with this source. Pearson and Jones are likely not listed on the legislative tracking page because they were expelled from the house or something, but the math doesn't add up if you assume they didn't vote. Elli (talk | contribs) 10:40, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks to both AlexEng and ElijahPepe's edit summaries (specifically Special:Diff/1148705404 & Special:Diff/1148673628), along with this discussion, I was able to somewhat straighten out what happened. The TGA website kept the numbers accurate, but excluded the names of the members they expelled post-vote and also didn't list those who voted present. But there is still a problem. The House has 99 seats and the first vote went 72-25 to make 97. The Tennessee Lookout source mentions that Rep. Sam Whitson, R-Franklin, was present but did not vote on Jones’ expulsion resolution, but that means that we only have a total of 98. So who was the 99th vote and what happened? --Super Goku V (talk) 02:25, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

I spent way too much time on this, and I'm going to hatnote some of the work to spare you the extra reading.

Various calculations based on data on TN General Assembly's website

Based on the data on the TN GA's website for each vote: [Sourced] The following 7 people voted for expelling Justin Jones but did not vote for expelling Gloria Johnson. Barrett Bricken Gillespie Richey Russell Sparks Terry [Sourced] Of those 7 people, the following 5 voted against expelling Johnson. Barrett Bricken Richey Russell Sparks [Inferred] The remaining 2 people did not vote on the resolution to expel Johnson. Gillespie Terry So Gloria Johnson's table should reflect 2 votes that were disqualified/vacant and 2 members not voting. Now onto Jones' vote totals. [Sourced] The following 6 people voted against expelling Gloria Johnson but did not vote against expelling Justin Jones: Barrett Bricken Richey Russell Sparks Whitson [Sourced] Of those 6 people, the following 5 voted for expelling Jones. Barrett Bricken Richey Russell Sparks [Inferred] The remaining 1 person did not vote on the resolution to expel Jones. Whitson So Justin Jones' table should reflect 2 votes that were disqualified/vacant and 1 member not voting.

I wrote a short script to do the math, and the following number of names are on the TN GA website for each resolution. I'm comparing them with the numbered vote totals provided on the same website.

Quantity of names vs. numbers on the website

Vote to expel Justin Jones?
	Yes	No	Total	Notes
Names	72	23	95	Whitson is not included in either column. Haston is not included in either column.
Numbers	72	25	97	In addition to the above, Pearson's and Jones' votes are not counted.
Vote to expel Gloria Johnson?
	Yes	No	Total	Notes
Names	65	29	94	Gillespie is not included in either column. Terry is not included in either column. Haston is not included in either column.
Numbers	65	30	95	In addition to the above, Pearson's and Jones' votes are not counted

The website appears to have errors. They neglected to add Haston's name on both votes. Whitson is also missing from the Jones vote. Gillespie and Terry also did not vote on the Johnson resolution, but it's not as serious, since they were not included in the totals. Haston's vote appears to have been counted as a "No" for Johnson. Whitson's vote appears to have been counted as a "No" as well. Hope that's somewhat helpful. I'm burnt out. AlexEng^(TALK) 22:00, 10 April 2023 (UTC)