Talk:Agent Orange

Production of Agent Orange by Chemical Industries (Kwinana) PTY. LTD

Agent Orange was produced in Kwinana, a suburb 25km South of Perth, Western Australia by the now defunct Chemical Industries (Kwinana) company. Surplus Agent Orange was transported from Vietnam to Singapore in 44 Gallon Drums and then dispatched to Australia during the US war effort.

The National Toxics Network noted in 2009 that quality control at the Mandurah Road site in the Kwinana industrial strip was poor, and "bad batches" were disposed of in pits, and were occasionally burned. The disposal methods have lead directly to Dioxin contamination of the Kwinana industrial complex, and have dispersed to Perth's northern suburbs via local wind patterns. The State Government agencies have identified a plume of dioxin contaminant beneath the site that is diffusing through the salt wedge at the water table, and is migrating to other nearby industrial sites. The West Australian Department of Environment and Conservation estimates that the plume will enter Cockburn Sound waters by 2050.

Cockburn sound, a slow flushing water body used for shipping at the Kwinana Industrial Complex, is home to one of only two aggregation spawning sites of the Pink Snapper. Local sea grasses, Posidonia and Amphibolis griffithii, directly at risk from the seep of Agent Orange into the coastal waters, are currently stabilising the Parmelia and Success Banks. The Parmelia and Gage Roads shipping channels, dredged at the cost of multiple hundreds of millions of dollars are consequently at risk of collapse, potentially causing untold ecological and economic damage.

source "FAB"

Some sources in this article are messed up. Refname ="FAB" points to 2 different sources.

• Note 36 (in Early Development section) points to: cite journal |author=Judith Perera and Andy Thomas |date=Apr 18, 1985 |title=New Scientist, April 18, 1985 |pages=34–36 |accessdate=February 22, 2014 which is here: http://books.google.com/books?id=q7v_rDK0uOgC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=this+horrible+natural+experiment+Perera+Thomas&source=bl&ots=HbDkNQCTEK&sig=aR2tiCHT5HbJfnwXrQg7Erv_4jU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sxakU_rGO4qmsATLjIDYAg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=this%20horrible%20natural%20experiment%20Perera%20Thomas&f=false

• And in the first ref In "Use in the Malayan Emergency" section the same refname points to "cite book |title=Handbook of Chemical and Biological Warfare Agents, Second Edition |author=D. Hank Ellison |date=August 24, 2007 |pages=567–570 |publisher=CRC Press |isbn=0-8493-1434-8" I was able to find this source online and the pages cites are to a section on viral pathogens and doesn't mention 2,4,5-T nor 2,4-D nor agent orange. I've deleted the information about this book. Jytdog (talk) 11:11, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Terminology

I am going to be working on this page and related ones in the next few weeks. There appear to be some editors who use term "agent orange" broadly, and to me this is not OK. Agent Orange was a particular blend of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T made in the US for a limited time. It didn't exist, for example, when the Malayan Emergency happened, and as far as I can find in reliable sources about herbicide use in war, a blend of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T was not used by the British or Malayan administration. I agree that the Malayan Emergency is important background for later use of Agent Orange, but the long description of what happened then, is way too much WP:WEIGHT for an article on Agent Orange, and I intend to move that material to the Malayan Emergency article and also the Herbicidal warfare article. There is a lot -- too much -- overlap between this article and the Herbicidal warfare article, and the latter article needs to be better integrated with its related articles... just giving everyone a heads up. Jytdog (talk) 12:54, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

and much of this article is copyvio from This horrible natural experiment".

this source

the whole early development section is copy-pasted and barely edited. removed most of it, and the section on the Malayan Emergency, which also has nothing to do with Agent Orange per se.

Recent reverts

Jytdog reverted my edit here, stating that he thought it was a copyvio from this site. In reality, that site is using Wikipedia content (from an older version of this article) without attribution -- that is, it is actually they who are committing a copyright violation. You can even see on page 1 where (besides using the same image as the lead here), when they were copy/pasting from Wikipedia, and trying to remove the footnote #'s, they accidentally missed #'s 10 and 11 (that article Jytdog linked to doesn't even have footnotes!) ... So I reverted Jytdog's edit (I'm assuming this was a good faith misunderstanding on his part, and he legitimately thought it was a copyvio).

Then Kingofaces43 came along, and reverted me again, saying something about WP:CIRCULAR, which has nothing to do with anything here. WP:CIRCULAR is about Wikipedia articles that use other Wikipedia articles as sources. This isn't even related to what is going on here. We are talking about another website (illegally) copying content from an old version of this Wikipedia article, not about this Wikipedia article referencing an older version of itself (it's not).

Anyways, just wanted to make this clear so I don't have to keep trying to explain this in edit summaries, and wasting more time ... --Jrtayloriv (talk) 07:53, 14 September 2014 (UTC)