Talk:Arain

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 January 2024

The Arain (آرائین) are a Muslim agricultural caste primarily settled in the Punjab and Sindh regions of Pakistan. They are commonly associated with farming and have traditionally held positions as landlords or zamindars. The origin of the Arain caste is a subject of debate, and various perspectives exist. The prevailing information about their origin is outlined below.

Country of Origin: Determining the original nationality of the Arain can be complex due to changes in regional boundaries over time. It is often asserted that they are rulers of Arab descent, likely due to the fact that the majority of Arain are Sunni Muslims, similar to the early Arabs in Muhammad bin Qasim's expedition. According to historical accounts, Arain migrated from Areeha (Jericho, Syria) with Muhammad Bin Qasim in 92 Hijri (711 AD). Muhammad Hayaat Madni, a Commander in Muhammad Bin Qasim's Army, is mentioned in the family tree of the renowned Arain Mian Family Baghbanpura. The famous Indian Historian of Islam, Akbar Shah Khan Najeebabadi, declared that they entered India through Debal, Sindh, with Muhammad Bin Qasim, identifying them as Areehai from Arreha (Jericho), which was later adapted to Arain in Punjab with a nasal sound.

Muhammad Sharif, a UK-based Indian historian, notes in "Destiny of the Tribe Raeen" that Arain began coming to Sindh (Iraq-i-Ajam) in 46 Hijri (666 AD) towards the end of the Orthodox Caliphate. They were part of the Banu Sama sub-tribe of the Banu 'Amir tribe within the larger Aal-i-Adnan clan (The House of Adnan) through Hawazin.

A study by the Pakistan Journal of Medical Sciences on blood types in the Punjab showed that while O is the most common blood group among all ethnicities, B is most common among the Arain, indicating a statistically significant difference. While not definitive proof of non-local ancestry, it highlights a distinction between the Arain and other castes in Punjab.

Languages: Arains residing in different parts of Pakistan speak various languages, including but not limited to Urdu, Punjabi, Pothohari, Seraiki, Sindhi, Hindko, Pushto, and Pahari, depending on their place of residence.

Arain Family Names: Arains commonly use the following family names (titles): Chaudhry, Mian, Mehar, Malik, Ramay, Bhutta, Sappal, Mari Put, Ghurki, Ramday, Bhutto, Shami, Munda, Hansi, Gill, Daulay, Chachar, Gaellin, Mulanay, Qutab, Shahi, Rattay, Goheer, Ghalar, Gahgeer, Gatku, Kavali, Basroo, Rahi, Bhati, Multani, Sayal, Baga, Peer, and Alrai.

Famous Families of Arains:

Mian Family of Bagwanpura Lahore Ghorki Family of Lahore Mahar Family of Ghotki Bhutto Family of Larkana Kasuri Family of Kasur Mian Family of Faisalabad Kohastani Family of Faisalabad Sardar Family of Kasur Ratta Family of Sadiqabad Nawab Family Choudhri Family of Khanpur Zardari Family Academic References: Several academic references support these details, including Akbar Shah Najeebabadi's "Aina Haqeeqat Numa," Asgar Ali Chadhury's "Tareekh Arain," and Horace Arthur's "A Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province."

Hazmed (talk) 18:42, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 21:19, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

is there any update on this? If you need anything else let me know. 90.204.81.15 (talk) 21:47, 13 January 2024 (UTC)

The historian and political scientist Christophe Jaffrelot believes that the Arain are displaced farming communities who moved to Punjab from Sindh and Multan as Arab Muslim armies encroached; they originally practised Hinduism but many later converted to Islam. He says that the community is related to the Kamboj Rajput community mainly located in northern India and eastern Pakistan.

Ishtiaq Ahmed, a political scientist who is also a member of the Arain community, acknowledges that some early Arain texts ascribe a Suryavanshi Rajput origin, while others note a Persian one to reflect to others the status of being "conquerors". He believes that the Arains "are a mix of many ethnicities and races", similar to other "farming castes of the Punjab and Haryana".

The origins part needs to be changed to:-

The Arain (آرائین) are a Muslim agricultural caste primarily settled in the Punjab and Sindh regions of Pakistan. They are commonly associated with farming and have traditionally held positions as landlords or zamindars. The origin of the Arain caste is a subject of debate, and various perspectives exist. The prevailing information about their origin is outlined below.

Country of Origin: Determining the original nationality of the Arain can be complex due to changes in regional boundaries over time. It is often asserted that they are rulers of Arab descent, likely due to the fact that the majority of Arain are Sunni Muslims, similar to the early Arabs in Muhammad bin Qasim's expedition. According to historical accounts, Arain migrated from Areeha (Jericho, Syria) with Muhammad Bin Qasim in 92 Hijri (711 AD). Muhammad Hayaat Madni, a Commander in Muhammad Bin Qasim's Army, is mentioned in the family tree of the renowned Arain Mian Family Baghbanpura. The famous Indian Historian of Islam, Akbar Shah Khan Najeebabadi, declared that they entered India through Debal, Sindh, with Muhammad Bin Qasim, identifying them as Areehai from Arreha (Jericho), which was later adapted to Arain in Punjab with a nasal sound.

Remove the part:-

As of 1931 Census of India, out of the total Arain population of 1,331,295 in Punjab, 1,330,057 (99.91%) were Muslims, 1,146 (0.086%) were Hindus, 67 (0.005%) were Sikhs and 5 (0.00038%) were Christians.

This is factually untrue. Sources are:-

https://www.araincouncilcanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Arain-Book.pdf

page 68

can add this to this part also:

A study by the Pakistan Journal of Medical Sciences on blood types in the Punjab showed that while O is the most common blood group among all ethnicities, B is most common among the Arain, indicating a statistically significant difference. While not definitive proof of non-local ancestry, it highlights a distinction between the Arain and other castes in Punjab.

where it says:-

There are several diasporic Arain communities in British towns and cities, such as Manchester, Glasgow and Oxford. The tribe has its own organisation, Arain Council UK, which was established as Anjuman-e-Arains in the 1980s and renamed in 2008.

British Conservative Party politician Sajid Javid's family were farmers from the village of Rajana near Toba Tek Singh, Punjab, from where they migrated to the UK in the 1960s; Javid speaks some Punjabi. Javid was the first British Asian to hold one of the British Great Offices of State, being first Home Secretary (2018–2019) and then Chancellor of the Exchequer (2019–2020).

can include this:

The Arain (آرائین) are a Muslim agricultural caste primarily settled in the Punjab and Sindh regions of Pakistan. They are commonly associated with farming and have traditionally held positions as landlords or zamindars. The origin of the Arain caste is a subject of debate, and various perspectives exist. The prevailing information about their origin is outlined below. Hazmed (talk) 09:45, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

I am sorry but you have completely failed to establish any evidence of any of your claims. You have cited afew sources such as Ishtiaq Ahmed and Christophe Jaffrelots. Can you please cite the evidence they gave? Where are your academic references and evidences for such a claim? I have searched online and have found no academic works. Can you please provide an academic source for this please?

You cannot impose a intellectual dictatorship, claim a particular tribe in the subcontinent belongs to such and such, yet you do not even have access to the academic literature, historical documents in those countries because you have zero arabic, persian or urdu proficiency.

Arains is 1350 years old and the books i cited have numerous references in them dating back 1300 years ago. Saleem at tarawikh by sufi ali akbar, asghar ali choudhury in tareekh arain, jannat ul sindh, al baladuri, history of tribes and castes in pubjab by HA rose and many many more (in urdu, english, arabic and persian languages).

I am sorry but you have failed to produce anything to counter my arguments, whether that be Arains are entirely sunni muslims, or that they established the mansura empure and mahfuza and maksura empires in india, or that they fought against the Brahmans in India and conquered that region many years ago. Also, dna is proving that the y dna in arains have are related to many quraysh and adnani arabs who scattered all over the world with the subclades downstream of r1a - z94 -> l657 etc. This dna as confimed by anatole klysov is a qurayshi arab dna marker. Please provide evidence of your claims with sources.

https://groups.jewishgen.org/g/main/message/32374

How about you allow people who are actually from this part of the world, can access these academic works, have the language proficiency to read these documents, actually contribute to their own history as opposed to imposing an dictatorial dialogue?

The historian and political scientist Christophe Jaffrelot believes that the Arain are displaced farming communities who moved to Punjab from Sindh and Multan as Arab Muslim armies encroached; they originally practised Hinduism but many later converted to Islam. He says that the community is related to the Kamboj Rajput community mainly located in northern India and eastern Pakistan.

Ishtiaq Ahmed, a political scientist who is also a member of the Arain community, acknowledges that some early Arain texts ascribe a Suryavanshi Rajput origin, while others note a Persian one to reflect to others the status of being "conquerors". He believes that the Arains "are a mix of many ethnicities and races", similar to other "farming castes of the Punjab and Haryana". Hazmed (talk) 02:32, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

ahmed Hazmed (talk) 22:12, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

By the way i found a video of dr ishtiaq ahmed.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/FpajyUumMZE

Here he is saying that there are two theories of arains, and that one theory says there these are arabs from areeha from syria and he said this is plausible, then he said there is another argument that thes are a mixture of different tribes. In his own words he is unsure and never claimed such a thing as definitive. Hazmed (talk) 22:16, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

dear contributer, you need to come up with a concise response to my questions or i will open a dispute. Hazmed (talk) 01:40, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

Hello. I am submitting corrections for the inaccuracies to this article on Arain. According to numerous academic sources in Urdu, Persian, and English, including British sources, the consensus is that the Arain caste is of Arabic heritage. The assertion that Arain has Rajput origins is incorrect. Additionally, there are false claims suggesting that some Arain individuals are Sikhs or Hindus, which is entirely untrue. The Arain community is unequivocally a Sunni Muslim caste. I will provide an "x to y" format for you, and please ensure that the article is rectified appropriately. Sources are cited at the bottom, and I can provide more if necessary.

Arain (آرائین) is a Muslim agricultural caste primarily settled in the Punjab and Sindh regions of Pakistan, associated with farming and traditional positions as landlords or zamindars.

Origin:

Claimed rulers of Arab descent, linked to Sunni Muslims like early Arabs in Muhammad bin Qasim's expedition.

Migration from Areeha (Jericho, Syria) with Muhammad Bin Qasim in 92 Hijri (711 AD).

Notable mention: Muhammad Hayaat Madni in Arain Mian Family Baghbanpura's family tree.

Entry into India through Debal, Sindh, identified as Areehai from Arreha (Jericho).

Migration:

Began coming to Sindh (Iraq-i-Ajam) in 46 Hijri (666 AD).

Part of Banu Sama sub-tribe of Banu 'Amir within Aal-i-Adnan clan through Hawazin.

Blood Types:

Study in the Punjab showed statistically significant differences.

Most common blood group among Arain: B.

Languages:

Arains speak various languages, including Urdu, Punjabi, Pothohari, Seraiki, Sindhi, Hindko, Pushto, and Pahari.

Family Names:

Commonly use family names (titles) like Chaudhry, Mian, Mehar, Malik, Ramay, Bhutta, Sappal, Mari Put, Ghurki, Ramday, Bhutto, Shami, Munda, Hansi, Gill, Daulay, Chachar, Gaellin, Mulanay, Qutab, Shahi, Rattay, Goheer, Ghalar, Gahgeer, Gatku, Kavali, Basroo, Rahi, Bhati, Multani, Sayal, Baga, Peer, Alrai.

Famous Families:

Mian Family of Bagwanpura Lahore

Mahar Family of Ghotki

Mian Family of Faisalabad

Sardar Family of Kasur

Nawab Family

Choudhri Family of Khanpur

Academic References:

Supported by academic works, including "Aina Haqeeqat Numa" by Akbar Shah Najeebabadi, "Tareekh Arain" by Asgar Ali Chadhury, and "A Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province" (Page 66) by Horace Arthur. Hazmed (talk) 22:07, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

https://archive.org/details/AinaHaqiqatNuma-AkberShahNajeebAbadi

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/A_Glossary_of_the_Tribes_and_Castes_of_t.html?id=-aw3hRAX_DgC&redir_esc=y

https://www.scribd.com/doc/186259373/Tareekh-e-Arain-Urdu

https://www.araincouncilcanada.com/history/arain-history/

https://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Arain Hazmed (talk) 22:16, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

https://www.araincouncilcanada.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Arain-Book.pdf Hazmed (talk) 22:17, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 April 2024

Wikinikolaadam (talk) 02:56, 4 April 2024 (UTC) I want to add more arain personalities in the list like Shah Inayat the mentor of Bulleh Shah, Shah Abdul Qadir Ludhianvi, Habib ur Rehman Ludhianvi, 4th Prime minister of Pakistan Ch Muhammad Ali, Commander in Chief Pakistan Navy Admiral HMS Choudri, Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Afzal Tahir, Bollywood actresses Shyama and Begum Para, Bollywood director AR Kardar,Lollywood actor Sultan Rahi, sportsmen; cricketer Wasim Akram, Sarfaraz Nawaz, Hockey player and captain Pakistan hockey team Shahbaz Ahmad

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you. Shadow311 (talk) 15:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 April 2024

You should add More personalities like First native chief of Naval staff HMS Choudri an arain from Batala. 4th Prime minister of Pakistan Ch Muhammad Ali from Jalandhar. Also I will post the link for 2 Bollywood actresses from arain community as per Ishtiaq Ahmed's Blogpost

https://apnaorg.com/prose-content/english-articles/page-83/article-10/index.html

Actresses Shyama and Begum Para are arains according to Ishtiaq Ahmed. Also cricketer Abdul Hafeez Kardar's brother is Bollywood director AR Kardar. You can also add Sarfaraz Nawaz the cricket who was 6 feet 6 inch tall. He is also a politician and a confirmed arain from Lahore has a votebank from Lahori arains. I have also edited pages for Shyama and Begum Para on Wikipedia you can see the citation from there Wikinikolaadam (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

Not done: When creating edit requests you are required to present what you want a reviewing editor to do specifically. That is to say, you should phrase your request to sound something like "Please change X to Y" or "Please remove/add Y" with X and Y being quoted prose. If adding content, you must also specify where specifically in the article you wish to insert it. —Sirdog (talk) 05:11, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 April 2024

Wikinikolaadam (talk) 11:26, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Add Ch Muhammad Ali the 4th Prime minister of Pakistan, Cricketer Sarfaraz Nawaz, Bollywood Actresses Shyama and Begum Para.

The latter (actresses) were arains as per Ishtiaq Ahmed's Blogpost

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk|contribs) 11:53, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 April 2024

Wikinikolaadam (talk) 08:00, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

Do add Prime minister Ch Muhammad Ali under who's govt Pakistan adopted first constitution and became republic. Also actresses Begum Para and Shyama and film director AR Kardar. You can see their sources on Ishtiaq Ahmed's blog Titled: Arain Roots of Shyama

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Blogs aren't generally considered reliable sources. If you'd like to reopen this request with a better source, please provide an actual link. PianoDan (talk) 18:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)