Talk:Crown colony: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Revision as of 04:34, 26 April 2015

	British Empire portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject British Empire, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of British Empire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.British EmpireWikipedia:WikiProject British EmpireTemplate:WikiProject British EmpireBritish Empire articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Raison d'être

I created this article as "Crown colony" was previously pointing to British Overseas Territory. Whilst "BOT" replaced the term British Dependent Territory in 2002, which in turn replaced Crown colony in 1981, it is rather misleading to have lots of country and state articles (such as Jamaica or Virginia) pointing to BOT when they were Crown colonies, and became independent decades if not centuries before 1981. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick^t 16:03, 30 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Just to remind you people here, crown colony was not exclusive to the British Empire, any colony in that sense was a crown colony wether it was in the Spanish Empire, Portuguese Empire, etc.--EuroHistoryTeacher (talk) 22:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So provide a reference showing that other empires' colonies are referred to as "Crown colonies" by English language historians. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick^t 03:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just look at Danish_Gold_Coast, it is desribed as being a former crown colony. A crown colony is a colony owned by the crown (the monarch of any given monarchy), most colonies being founded by chartered company.85.83.81.228 (talk) 17:09, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That article doesn't source its comment and looking at the cited weblink for the article there is no mention of the term at all. BTW wikipedia doesn't reference itself, that doesn't justify the comment. Justin talk 18:04, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

[1] and [2] if you want links.77.215.24.42 (talk) 10:25, 24 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

New Zealand

NZ Appears to have been under Crown Colony governance too. According to the website of the Governor-Gerneral of NZ. NZ was a Crown Colony from around 1841 to 1853, at which time NZ became self-governing. Website of the Governor General -- CaribDigita (talk) 20:36, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What's your point? NZ is mentioned. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick^t 23:50, 30 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think the point is that the article says that the term crown colony was not used to describe Australia or New Zealand. I do not think that is correct in relation to Australia and according to CaribDigita not correct for NZ either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.175.214.216 (talk) 02:01, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Messy

This article is a confused and confusing mess. Not great as well to have a lead twice as long as the core of the article.

Then you have a long (meaningless or misleading because each entry is too short and imprecise) "List of Crown Colonies" with the usual little flaggy flags, followed by the weirdest definition for Crown colony: A territory belonging by settlement, conquest or annexation to the British Crown or to an independent Commonwealth country.

???

I suspect that most people ending up here looking for a clear and simple definition of what was a Crown colony will leave more confused than they were before.

Why not start with a good, simple definition of "Crown colony" as you may find in a decent dictionary: A British colony whose legislature and administration was controlled by the Crown, represented by a governor (Oxford Dictionaries). Simply put, a Crown colony was a colony with no self-government, no representative government, or very little of it. For instance, the "Crown Colony Period" in New Zealand history is said to be the period when the colony had no elected assembly (1840-1853).

We could also dispense with "The List" but I know too many editors insist in having those lists with the proper little flaggy flags. Ok, so let's keep the list (full of errors as it is), but let's have at least a decent article, starting with a simple, clear definition. --Lubiesque (talk) 22:56, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple flags

Is it really necessary to have all those flags on the list of colonies? I mean, some have four flags! It's messy and confusing. Why not have just the Colonial flag (is it really that important to have the modern-day flags, too)? 99.102.176.146 (talk) 18:49, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Contradiction

The article on British Hong Kong states that it was a Dependent Territory from 1981 to 1997, not a crown colony. ZFT (talk) 03:36, 10 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

British Nationality Act 1981

The British Nationality Act was passed in 1981, but the law came into force on 1 January 1983. Many British colonies became British Dependent Territory in 1983 not 1981. 202.55.32.56 (talk) 16:19, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Having checked the article on the act and referred to my own text books on the subject I can see nothing that would substantiate that claim. You may be confused by the fact that the status of the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man changed on 1 January 1983, moving from dependent territories to become part of the UK. The British Nationality Act 1981 moved former Crown Colonies to become British Dependent Territories.[3] W C M_email 13:16, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

All crown dependencies and crown colonies were affected by the same British Nationality Act of 1981, and that's why the effective date was also 1 January 1983. 202.55.32.56 (talk) 16:19, 24 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Don't be ridiculous, the date there refers to the fact that on 1st January 1983 the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man moved from being dependent territories to become part of the UK. This is stated explicitly in that document. W C M_email 09:13, 25 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 33: / Line 33: @@
 We could also dispense with "The List" but I know too many editors insist in having those lists with the proper little flaggy flags. Ok, so let's keep the list (full of errors as it is), but let's have at least a decent article, starting with a simple, clear definition. --[[User:Lubiesque|Lubiesque]] ([[User talk:Lubiesque|talk]]) 22:56, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
-This article is not just a confusing mess. It is full of errors. It is because the first editor did not spend time to verify the dates and facts. Subsequent attempts to correct the errors just result in labeling you as starting an editing war.
-Aden colony did not end in 1967. It is 1963, because it joined the Federation of South Arabia. It is a British protectorate, not a colony.
-Basutoland, I did not find any reference it became a protectorate in 1964. The colony became independent as Kingdom of Lesotho in 1966. Just two year difference, why the British officials need to change its political status.
-Bermuda, the British Nationality Act was passed in 1981, but it came into force in 1983. So the effective date for many British colonies become British Dependent Territory should be 1983. The British parliament passed the act not to change the name of its colonies, but to remove British subjects citizenship status. So it must have grace period for people to prepare.
-British Guiana came into British rule in 1814 not 1831.
-Mauritius is not the same as Seychelles. Seychelles was separated from Mauritius in 1903. It became independent in 1976 not 1968. Mauritius is British colony form 1810 to 1968.
-Jamaica became British colony in 1655 not 1865.
-Labuan is a British colony from 1846 to 1946. It became part of North Borneo in 1946. North Borneo joined Malaysia in 1963.
-Saint Christopher-Nevis-Anguilla is a British colony form 1958 to 1983. Anguila became separated form Saint Kitts and Nevis in 1980.
-British Virgin Islands, Malaysia, Montserrat, Pitcairn Islands, Singapore, St Helena, Turks & Caicos Islands are all missing in the list.  [[Special:Contributions/202.55.32.56|202.55.32.56]] ([[User talk:202.55.32.56|talk]]) 16:20, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
 == Multiple flags ==
@@ Line 62: / Line 42: @@
 The article on British Hong Kong states that it was a Dependent Territory from 1981 to 1997, not a crown colony. [[User:ZFT|ZFT]] ([[User talk:ZFT|talk]]) 03:36, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
-The introduction of the term British Dependent Territory was just to remove the citizenship rights of Hong Kong people, especially the right of abode in the UK. There was no political and legal change in the colony itself. Everyone knew that it was 1997, when the colony of Hong Kong was transferred to China. [[Special:Contributions/202.55.32.56|202.55.32.56]] ([[User talk:202.55.32.56|talk]]) 16:18, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
 == British Nationality Act 1981  ==
@@ Line 70: / Line 48: @@
 :Having checked the article on the act and referred to my own text books on the subject I can see nothing that would substantiate that claim.  You may be confused by the fact that the status of the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man changed on 1 January 1983, moving from dependent territories to become part of the UK. The British Nationality Act 1981 moved former Crown Colonies to become British Dependent Territories.[https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/267906/Britishoverseasterritories.pdf] <span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Wee Curry Monster|W]][[Special:contributions/Wee Curry Monster|C]][[User talk:Wee Curry Monster|M]]</span><sub>[[Special:EmailUser/Wee Curry Monster|email]]</sub> 13:16, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
-Even the document you referenced clearly stated "The British dependent territories on 1 January 1983" so legal effective date is 1983. The reason why it is 1983 not 1981, is because all British colonial citizens get a BTDC passport, but not a British passport as before 1983. I knows this fact because I have been a British subject before. As it was different from the British Overseas Territories Act 2002, which was effective on 21 May 2002. The population of the British colonies at that time were so small, the British government did not need to bother their citizenship rights. As a result ,there was no need for a grace period.
 All crown dependencies and crown colonies were affected by the same British Nationality Act of 1981, and that's why the effective date was also 1 January 1983. [[Special:Contributions/202.55.32.56|202.55.32.56]] ([[User talk:202.55.32.56|talk]]) 16:19, 24 April 2015 (UTC)