Talk:North Dakota State University

Campus areas and POV

Is the amount of detail under the Campuses section really necessary? In particular, I feel the subsections of south area, north area, central area and athletic area under the Main Campus section would be better off with a little less detail, and then perhaps we could do away with the individual subsections.

Also, the first paragraph under Student Life as well as the section about residence life read as though they are from NDSU promotional material. I'm not sure what to do except delete the parts in question entirely. The entirety of the Student Life section seems to be in a similar tone, yet the other sections at least contribute some meaningful information. Thoughts? Jamestminer (talk) 00:55, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Instead of just deleting things I would recommend they just be edited to be more NPOV and possibly shorter. --NDState 17:47, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Infobox

I would like to add a data template (Template:Infobox_University) to the NDSU article that is similar to the one that I added for the University of North Dakota, but I'm having a bit of trouble finding the necessary data. Can anybody else find out the following info?

• NDSU seal...is there one?
• motto?
• number of undergrad students?
• number of grad students?
• number of faculty?

--MatthewUND 00:06, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

I'll see what I can find on NDSU for you... I suppose if I'm going there next year, I should know something about it, eh? --Driken 05:36, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Best examples of the NDSU seal are accompanying the president's State of the University address here and on the windshield sticker here.

As long as this is in my mind, too, could you tell me how to upload pictures? Maybe I just am missing something easy, but I'm not sure how, and I'd appreciate a bit of a tutorial...

• You appear to already have found the motto, which is good, because I can't seem to find it.

For 2005-2006 schoolyear...

• number of undergrad students - 10,496
• number of grad students - 1,603
• number of instructional faculty - 616

By the way all this info came from NDSU's own site, here. --Driken 06:04, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Endowment?

Where has the information that NDSU's endowment is $50.2 million come from? I can find no such data on the internet except for on Wikipedia and all of the other websites that copy Wikipedia's articles word-for-word. This sounds way too high to me. I would like to see a reference as to the $50.2 million. --MatthewUND^(talk) 08:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

According to the website of the NDSU Development Foundation, within their report to investors, the Foundation has net assests of $90,201,795 as of June 30, 2005. If you take into account approximately $13,000,000 for other liabilities the more correct figure of $103,461,171 as of June 30, 2005 is nearly twice that of what is being reported. Don't worry though, this summer once I get some time, I'll take over the NDSU Wikipedia article and release a bit more in depth version of this article.

Here is the <a href="http://www.ndsufoundation.com/rti.pdf">link if you would like to read the report</a>. I'm not positive if this also includes the $75,000,000 momentum campaign they just announced ( I believe they have $65,000,000 right now for it ). —Preceding unsigned comment added by MatthewNDSU (talk • contribs)

I removed the part where it said NDSU had an endowment of 50.2 million, as no one seems to be able to find it.

I think that 103,461,171 + the 65 million for momentum may be a good number... what do you all think? --Ndstate 01:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The most accurate number I can find is from the NDUS State Board of Higher Ed's FY05 Financial Report. This gives NDSU's endowment as $367,680 and the NDSU Development Foundation's endowment as $69,559,299 for a total of ~$69.9 million. The info is over a year old, but it's the best available. Remember: Net Assets != Endowments.

Only $41 million of Momentum is earmarked for endowments. I think more than that has been raised, but we won't know the results for certain until the SBoHE's FY06 report comes out in Jan/Feb 07.24.117.47.188 22:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I think the endowment reference should be removed until we get real (verifyable) numbers. I have seen many different amounts from sites such as http://www.ndsufoundation.com/, http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/ndsu/vpbf/fiscal/f2000-16.htm, and others. Not to mention that there are various endowment areas listed at http://www.ndsufoundation.com/annualfund/giftop.htm. I think it would be in the best interest to remove the amount until this is resolved. --Ndstate 04:21, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree 100%. --MatthewUND^(talk) 06:19, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I removed it until a source can be found --Ndstate 04:34, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I see that endowment was re added with a new reference. I am not sure why this source was decided as an end-all, especially when the Development Foundation lists another number: http://www.ndsufoundation.com/rti.pdf Endowment = the property, funds, etc., with which an institution or person is endowed... so that would be the development foundation's total assets? --NDState 21:34, 30 June 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ndstate (talk • contribs)

ndbison.com

What do you all think of the inclusion of the external link to ndbison.com? It appears to be a commercial website that was started in the past year or so. I removed links to it that had been placed in each and every article about athletic programs at NDSU, but I'm asking what you think about having it here in the main NDSU article. Personally, I'm not so hot on having a link to a small, new, commercial website that appears to be little more than a repository of links. Let me know what you all think. --MatthewUND^(talk) 03:59, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry if this is not the way I am suppose to reply. I havent done much on wiki except read the articles. I personally think that the website ndbison.com is fine to have on the page. It looks as if it provides a good set of information to students that would be helpful. Because the site is free I do not see it as a problem. Its not as if they are trying to make NDSU students pay for stuff.

I personally found the site more detailed then just a link repository. They had some interesing articles as well as a message board and a great deal of useful information. I really like their idea of the market place, I sure am getting sick of getting screwed on book purchases.

I vote keep it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.165.221 (talk • contribs)

I don't think that it should be there. It is a commercial endeavor MisterCMK 04:49, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't look very commercial to me. --Ndstate 06:09, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Individualism across articles please

Is there any specific reason that people need to continue to plaster this article on North Dakota State University, with countless references to UND? I realize that you guys love your school... but this is North Dakota State University's page, not UND's. It's funny how it's completely plastered on this page, but if you goto UND's article page, not a single mention of NDSU on it. That's how it should be on NDSU's article. NO UND info, other than the linkbox listing all of the state universities at the bottom of the page. Just my thoughts and feelings on the matter. --MatthewNDSU 9:14pm, July 8th, 2006 (UTC)

What are you talking about? There is only one link to UND in the article and that is in the brief mention of the former rivalry.--MatthewUND^(talk) 07:30, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Who writes this stuff?

This article is clearly written by someone with a pro-UND bias. I'm offended! --—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.58.166.109 (talk • contribs)

What about this article shows any kind of bias? If there is such a bias, why haven't other editors noticed it or corrected it over the past months/years? When declaring that an article is biased, I would recommend pointing out the parts that your feel are biased. As far as a pro-UND bias, I would once again point out that there is only one brief mention of UND. I'm not sure what about this article would "offend" anyone. --MatthewUND^(talk) 03:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

The article and the related discussion is clearly biased for the following reasons:

1) Lack of meaningful content, especially when compared to the Wikipedia UND article, which is, I believe, by the same author.

2) Insulting comments in the "discussion" section, again by the same author, such as: "NDSU seal...is there one?" and "Where has the information that NDSU's endowment is $50.2 million come from?..This sounds way too high to me." Answers to those question would be available, with little effort, to anyone with minimal knowledge of internet search tools. Why would an obviously sophisticated person bother to ask such silly questions? Perhaps you have an agenda?

3) Petty pejorative references to facts like NDSU's acceptance rate (which, by the way, does not identify any source). 4) Links to other articles, such as the Red River Research Corridor, that blatantly, and undeservedly, highlight UND and downplay NDSU.

If you can't do justice to NDSU find someone who will! --—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.2.242.82 (talk • contribs)

I'm not looking to start a fight here. You should be glad that I have worked on the NDSU article as much as I have. I have included a substantial amount of the material found here. As far as the length of this article compared to UND's, I can assure you that without my work this NDSU article would likely be shorter than it currently is. Also, do you seriously think that an editor who has edited an article about one university should be required to go out and make the articles of all other "rival" universities the exact same length? That isn't my job, nor is it the job of any other editor. As far as labeling my inquiry about NDSU's seal to be "insulting", you are clearly misreading my tone. It is difficult to find the seal of NDSU on their website. I was asking for help and someone did actually help me out. Why would someone so biased against NDSU put any effort into trying to find the seal of that university so that it could be included in that university's article? Your arguements just don't stand up here. I have not been a biased editor in the past, nor will I be in the future. I would encourage you to actually offer something to the Wikipedia project instead of falsely claiming longtime editors whose work you are unfamiliar with to be biased. --MatthewUND^(talk) 22:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

This article was written by Earl Mindell like labyriante reference to himself. And it explain why it was not corrected by the staff of university.

Why reference UND?

In my opinion NDSU's dormant rivalry with UND does not merit mention here. The way this is worded implies that the rivalry is about all NDSU is known for - obviously not true. It is not normal to list a university's main athletic rivals. The reference ought to be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.130.11.100 (talk • contribs)

I think we should add a rivalry section under sports, maybe when I have more time I can work on it. --Ndstate 05:46, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

NDAC

I believe that NDSU was founded as "North Dakota Agricultural College" not "North Dakota State College of Agriculture"

http://www.ndsu.edu/oia/inst_analysis/factbook/university/perspectives.shtml http://www.lib.ndsu.nodak.edu/archives/ndsuhistory/history.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.130.11.100 (talk • contribs)

Nickel Trophy Correction

The Sioux image is not on the "front" of the trophy (that seems to imply something) it simply on one side of the trophy, and the Bison image is on the other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.58.166.109 (talk • contribs)

Time to remove the Wisconsin victory reference.

It's not that big of a deal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.58.166.109 (talk • contribs)

Remove the reference to NDSU's admission rate.

It is undocumented, and unless you provide numbers for comparison it is virtually meaningless to the average reader. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GothmogLOB (talk • contribs)

I disagree, a lot of people that is interested in attending college looks at number of students enrolled. To some it is a very important deciding factor. It may not be useful to the average person, but the information may be useful to a lot of other people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.217.24.154 (talk • contribs)

Updates

I have added quite a bit of stuff to the page. I am still a little lost on all of the symbols and stuff you use for formatting in wiki. Let me know what you think of the stuff I added, also please fix the formatting if there is something that you dont like.

Let me know!

---

I was also wondering where the staff number came from? Because according to http://www.ndsu.nodak.edu/oia/inst_analysis/factbook/university/quick_facts.shtml#ratio there are 5363 employees, not 1900

Thanks --Ndstate 02:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Material from other websites

I have removed several sections of text that were recently copied from external websites and pasted into this article. The external websites can be found here, here, here, and from various links accessed from here. Instead of merely copying text from external websites, you should always rewrite the information in your own words. --MatthewUND^(talk) 03:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Hello,

Sorry, I am new to wiki and not sure exactly how everything works. The only reason I copied the mission etc. is because I saw other schools do it and there is no way to reword it.

The other stuff I put up knowing that someone would show me how its suppose to be edited (I suppose this isnt the best way to go about it). Anyways, I was planning on reworking much of it. I was using another school as a guide, they had copied alot directly so I assumed it was alright for other stuff.

I will remember this for the future.

Thanks--Ndstate 06:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey, no problem. Plenty of what you added was good info that just had to be reworded/trimmed a bit. --MatthewUND^(talk) 00:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Picture of NDSU?

Does anyone have a public domain picture of NDSU? A picture of Old Main and/or the Engineering Complex would really add to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by GothmogLOB (talk • contribs)

I'll have to see what I can find. It isn't always very easy to find suitable pictures (those that are in the public domain) unless they have been taken by a Wikipedian. --MatthewUND^(talk) 20:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I can go around and take some pictures when school starts up again in a few weeks. Anything in particular you want? --Ndstate 05:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

That would be great! I really think Old Main is the quintessential NDSU image. This article needs a picture of it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.2.242.82 (talk • contribs)

NDSU Size

I dont know if it is a very big deal or not, but I think it would be neat to note that NDSU is the largest university (based on land size) in the country, what do you think? --Ndstate 04:23, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

If that's true, I think it would be an interesting fact to include. Can we find a reference to use? --MatthewUND^(talk) 06:19, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I am looking for a reference, but its kind of hard to find --Ndstate 04:35, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Campus Section!

I added a great deal to the campus section. I have considered breaking some of it down and putting it in other sections, but I am not sure. Please provide any feedback of what you think about the section.

Thanks Ndstate 04:32, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Looks like great work so far. The NDSU article has been in serious need of expansion for some time. Great to see someone so familiar with NDSU take the article on. --MatthewUND^(talk) 05:18, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Well I have quite a bit more where that came from. As I have time I will add more. Thanks --Ndstate 05:19, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Template

Just wondering if anyone has started an NDSU template? --Ndstate 04:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to User:MatthewUND we now have one Template:North_Dakota_State_University --NDState 06:15, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

NDSU Logo

For some reason the NDSU logo was recently changed on many pages without discussion. I would like to know why the image was changed and how the current one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NorthDakotaStateBison.png) was selected and why the former (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NDSU_Logo.jpg) was removed.

The former logo is used much more by NDSU then the newly selected one. This can be illustrated all over the NDSU Athletics website http://www.gobison.com. Furthermore, the image is used on a page about "Why the Bison?" http://www.gobison.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2400&KEY=&ATCLID=187673 which exemplifies why the Bison were chosen for NDSU. --Ndstate 03:00, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

The logo was changed because I couldn't find anything that said that the given logo wasn't current (in fact, I saw the provided logo as part of the NDSU visual standards guide), and the new logo is in the preferred PNG format. I like the other logo much more, so if you can upload a PNG version of the one that I removed, I certainly won't be offended in the slightest if you put it in place of mine and send mine into oblivion. -fuzzy510 03:04, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Well I was just wondering. The problem is that NDSU and NDSU Athletics has too many different logos. I will contact athletics and see which is preferred. --Ndstate 03:08, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Current Construction and Expansion

I'm a little concerned about the "Current Construction and Expansion" section. For starters, the section reads "NDSU is currently growing at an exceptional rate. NDSU's recent move to NCAA Division I athletics coupled with the addition of many academic programs and research opportunities has lead to a nearly 20% increase in enrollment in 5 years." but no sources are given to back up these statements. Unless we can find appropriate relevant sources, the reasons given for any enrollment increases constitute original research. The paragraph is also not npov...what constitutes "exceptional?"

The list of building and remodeling projects itself is also of concern. If at all possible, lists should always be avoided. This information could easily be converted to prose. Also, all efforts should be made so that articles are as relevant a year from now as they are today. Including exhaustive details about current and future building projects is not really appropriate and would soon make the article seem outdated. I would recommend condensing the material into a short prose paragraph that covers some of the larger projects. The paragraph could then be moved to another section. Building projects may warrant their own paragraph, but they don't warrant their own section. --MatthewUND^(talk) 06:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Well that statement was derived from reports from a report put out by one of the Vice President's Offices, as well as from statements that the President has made including State of the University Reports.

The use of exceptional: If you base the term exceptional on the definition "better then average" as is stated at http://www.webster.com/dictionary/exceptional then it is accurate as 20% is faster then average. I do not see how this isnt npov.

As far as the list of buildings etc., this has been done on the pages of several other universities without question. The NDSU section is very similar... I will attempt to find what pages it was based off of.--Ndstate 19:16, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Enrollment

When will it be appropriate to remove the "2nd largest..." phrase? It appears that NDSU has surpassed UND and is now the largest school in ND. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by GothmogLOB (talk • contribs)

We need to wait for the final enrollment figures which will be out next month. --MatthewUND^(talk) 02:44, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I thought the same thing initially then realized we should wait till the final numbers come out. --NDState 22:33, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Student Life Section

I recently added student life section in an attempt to start to clean up the NDSU article (Note: I will be expanding this section soon). One thing that concerns me is the long list of residence halls. I would like to see some way of cleaning this up, so it takes up less space. I do not see why we need to list them, one per line, especially when it is just their names. I think it takes up too much space for such little information. Any suggestions are appreciated. --NDState 20:55, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

You're right...lists should be avoided at all costs. This list should either be turned into a textual summary or...better yet...simply deleted. There is no need to include mentions of each and every res hall...there is nothing very notable about any res hall that warrants its inclusion in this overview of NDSU. --MatthewUND^(talk) 05:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I will delete it for now. --NDState 16:27, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

What about the greek "houses"? --NDState 16:32, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I personally think listing the greek houses is also overkill. What do you think? --MatthewUND^(talk) 05:46, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I think it should be changed also. --NDState 22:16, 4 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ndstate (talk • contribs)

NDSU History

I added a history section to the NDSU article. I was not sure of what exactly I should include in it, so I put some things that seemed relevant. Note that the 20th century needs a lot of help. I will be doing some research and expanding the section. --NDState 04:52, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

After a quick look, I think the section is pretty good so far! I hadn't left any comments on the peer review yet, but I was going to mention that a history section was needed. By the way, I've found Wikipedia:Avoid academic boosterism to be an interesting read. When I edit the UND article or when you edit the NDSU article we both have to be really careful to keep a neutral tone...especially when our usernames give away our allegiances like they do! --MatthewUND^(talk) 07:24, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I will work on making the article more neutral... I guess its just a little more work when you are so directly involved in something. I will clean it up and add more soon. Also, if you see any other things that need references let me know. Thanks --NDState 05:50, 9 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ndstate (talk • contribs)

I think you've actually been doing a great job of keeping the article neutral. I know I used to find it hard to be neutral when working on the UND article, but I think I've gotten a little better over time. It can be tricky to keep "boosterism" out of an article at times. Actually, I think we both can help each other out with that...we can both routinely check for "boosterism" in the article for the other's alma mater. I think a critical eye can improve an article. I really enjoy working with you on these various articles! --MatthewUND^(talk) 07:41, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I think its a great idea to continue to work together, it seems to work well and its enjoyable. --NDState 02:20, 10 October 2007 (UTC)