Talk:Plymouth Colony

Questionable sentence about Squanto

The article says:

[Squanto] had returned to New England in 1619, acting as a guide to explorer Capt. Robert Gorges, but Massasoit and his men had massacred the crew of the ship and had taken Squanto.

The articles on Squanto and Thomas Dermer say that Squanto sailed with Dermer, not with Robert Gorges. Dermer's crew was indeed attacked by natives, but none of the articles mention that the attack was carried out by Massasoit. Furthermore, according to the Squanto article, there is not sufficient evidence to conclude that Squanto was ever a prisoner of Massasoit. AxelBoldt (talk) 20:02, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Opening Section

This sentence needs to be reworked. Aside from being unclear, and something of a run-on sentence, it seems antagonistic.

"Most of the citizens of Plymouth were fleeing religious persecution and searching for a place to worship as they saw fit, while wanting the groups around them to adhere to their beliefs, rather than being entrepreneurs like many of the settlers of Jamestown in Virginia."

I am not an expert; but I suggest that, if I correctly understand what this is trying to say, the following might be more clear, and more neutral:

|Unlike the settlers of the Jamestown colony in Virginia, most of the citizens of Plymouth were fleeing religious persecution and seeking a place to live and worship as they saw fit. They also sought to spread their Christian faith to the native peoples of the land they would settle.| — Preceding unsigned comment added by SRBirch922 (talk • contribs) 00:57, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

First sentence good. Second incorrect. There is no evidence of proselytizing for at least the first decade. By 1670, there were many "Praying Indians", several hundred, perhaps a thousand. But they were all genocidally enslaved during King Philip's War. The French tried conversion a lot, but the English only rarely. Jonathan Ames Fuller (talk) 14:02, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

The central clause was the problem; the solution was simple. —Dilidor (talk) 15:35, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

"Most of the citizens of Plymouth were fleeing religious persecution and searching for a place to worship as they saw fit, also wanting the groups around them be cooperant into building a coherent ideological web, thus not primarily favoring entrepreneurs like were most of the settlers of Jamestown in Virginia." --Askedonty (talk) 20:33, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Squanto/Gorges error

Article states that Tisquantum (Squanto) was returned to Plymouth in 1619 by Robert Gorges. Incorrect. He was returned by Dermer. Dermer himself was sponsored by Ferdinando Gorges (Robert's father), who was Governor of the Plymouth Fort and who also sponsored John Smith's 1614 trip to New England. Gorges shared Dermer's letter with the Pilgrims just before they left Plymouth, England. Jonathan Ames Fuller (talk) 13:55, 12 June 2023 (UTC)

Emigrate

@Dilidor:: You edits changing 'immigrate' to 'emigrate' are incorrect. Please see the section on your talk page, User talk:Dilidor#Immigrate/emigrate, and look up the usage difference between 'emigrate' and 'immigrate'. Generally speaking, 'emigrate' takes the preposition 'from', and 'immigrate' takes 'to'. Clause in question reads '...and _________ed to the Netherlands...', so the correct answer is pretty clear cut. CoatGuy2 (talk) 15:42, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

• @CoatGuy2:Kindly read what I have posted below and continue this conversation there. —Dilidor (talk) 15:46, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Emigrate vs. Immigrate

Emigrate means "to move out of" one place, from assimilated form of ex "out" (see ex-) + migrare "to move". Immigrate means to "move into" a new place, from assimilated form of in- "into, in, on, upon" + migrare "to move". So the Pilgrims were moving into Amsterdam. If the sentence was saying that they were moving out of England, then "emigrate" would be correct. But as it stands now, the sentence says that they were moving into Amsterdam, and therefore "immigrate" is correct. — Dilidor (talk) 15:43, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

So why did you change it back to 'emigrate'? CoatGuy2 (talk) 15:46, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

Pardon me, I was misremembering the sentence. It reads "the congregation left England". They moved "out of" England, meaning that they emigrated. ―Dilidor (talk) 15:48, 14 August 2023 (UTC)