Talk:Radziłów

Re: 24 April 2011 section blanking and removal of reliable sources

The Polish investigation by the Institute of National Remembrance was suspended, not concluded in 2010. There was no "findings", because in law, findings are conclusions as to matters of facts arrived at through testimony heard before the court. However, the new edits as of 24 April 2011 indicate, that in fact conclusions have been drawn, which is misleading. The IPN statement makes no mention of the source for the numbers of victims, and it does not specify who the perpetrators were. Please note the passive voice in statements such as: poszukiwano ukrywających się Żydów... zabijano... pozbawiono życia... etc. There's no reason to believe that the IPN announcement was based on anything more than the blanked out deposition of Menachem Finkelsztajn as discussed by prof. Tomasz Strzembosz in his work. The cooling off period seems sufficient enough to address the problem of erroneous info and the removal of WP:RS material. — Matalea (talk) 01:19, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

External links modified

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Misrepresentation removed - Levin

I removee the following - Soviet-armed Jewish militiamen helped NKVD agents send Polish families into exile sourced to Levin - as Levin does not say this. Levin refers to the false labeling of the Soviet administration as a whole as a "Jewish regime" (as Poles were not accustomed to Jews being given a significant role in the administration - a position mostly denied them in the second republic), does not refer to "families", and does not refer to Radziłów.Icewhiz (talk) 16:17, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Yes, Levin does say that the Soviet administration was labeled as such, but he also states clearly was what the reason for it - "Soviet-armed Jewish militiamen helped NKVD agents send Polish families into exile". If you wish to add the first part that's fine, but please don't remove the relevant text, and don't falsely accuse others of misrepresentation. It's WP:TENDentious.Volunteer Marek (talk) 16:24, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

@Volunteer Marek: This is a serious defamatory misrepresentation - and I do strongly suggest you self-revert here. This is a quote taken out of context, not about Radziłów, and which does not say families. Please do not take general statements of what some Jews did over a wide area - and then reflect those general statements on specific Jews of a specific town.Icewhiz (talk) 16:29, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Hmm, that may be a good point. It's not a misrepresentation, but it's true that this particular town is not mentioned. But that is NOT the argument you were making initially. Rather you made false accusations. But alright, I'll take it out as UNDUE for this article.Volunteer Marek (talk) 16:33, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

"Levin does not say this" <-- Lol. Levin says EXACTLY this. It's a freakin' quote. I put the appropriate quotation marks in.Volunteer Marek (talk) 16:31, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

"Levin refers to the false labeling of the Soviet administration as a whole as a "Jewish regime" <-- Levin neither calls this "labeling" false nor true. He is giving reasons for why, rightly or wrongly, it occurred. He mentions several phenomenon in different regions - helping NKVD with deportations, confiscation of property, desecration of Christian religious artifacts. In no way does he question that these things occurred - just the opposite, he is using their occurrence as an explanation.

So stop misrepresenting sources and article text please.Volunteer Marek (talk) 16:31, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

In regards to "labeling" - Have you read Levin's actual text? Or just his very one-sentence short quotation elsewhere? Placing this passage in Radziłów is a defamatory misrepresentation - as the placement here in the manner it was done reads as if the quotation is about what happened in Radziłów. Levin, also, does not say "families" - so no - this is not a direct quote.Icewhiz (talk) 16:37, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

Clarification needed

"8 local Polish perpetrators were tried in Polish courts after the war" <-- Is that from Bender or from USHMM? Volunteer Marek (talk) 16:21, 3 July 2018 (UTC)

It is clearly cited to USHMM at the end of the passage run. Bender also discusses a trial of the boy who set the barn alight (and gives details). The relevant USHMM passage is Of the eight perpetrators tried after the war in Poland, two were found guilty and sentenced to prison terms of four and six years for murdering the Jews of Radziłów. During thecriminal investigations, Antoni Kosmaczewski mentioned he already was serving a 15- year prison term for murdering two Jews, but the documentation to confi rm whether he and Józef were convicted of murdering the Dorogojs is not available. SS-Obersturmführer Hermann Schaper was never tried for the Radziłów murders......Icewhiz (talk) 16:26, 3 July 2018 (UTC)