Talk:Ram Navami riots

Delhi-Meerut riots

TrangaBellam, I wonder if you have access to the book:

• Engineer, Asghar Ali (1988). Delhi-Meerut Riots: Analysis, Compilation, and Documentation. Ajanta Publications (India). ISBN 9788120201989.

Google showed this passage:

Syed Shahabuddin was found trying to restrain the latter. Fast on the heels of the Muslim rally at Boat Club came the Ram Navami procession on April 7, organised by the Hindu communal groups. (p.77)

But I can't see any context or how this influenced Meerut. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 09:54, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

@Kautilya3 IA has a copy. TrangaBellam (talk) 17:57, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Muscular Rama

The muscular Rama of 2002 can be seen in these articles:

• [2022/04/vhp-plans-to-carry-out-over-1000-ram-navami-rallies-in-west-bengal/ VHP plans to organise over 1,000 Shobha Yatras in West Bengal on Ram Navami: Report], OpIndia, 5 April 2022.
• Hyderabad: Rama Navami Shobha Yatra passes off peacefully, Telangana Today, 10 April 2022.
• Hyderabad: Colourful 'Shobha Yatra' on Ram Navami taken out in city, Hans India, 11 April 2022.

-- Kautilya3 (talk) 17:32, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Can you tell the difference between left wing depiction and right wing depiction of Rama. Bharat0078 (talk) 14:47, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

The opposite of "right wing" is not necessarily "left wing". It could be just normal, in this case traditional.

... a wonderfully insightful and erudite article from 1993 by Anuradha Kapur called "Deity to Crusader: The Changing Iconography of Ram" (A. Kapur 1993a). Here Kapur traces a marked iconographic shift in popular imagery from the earlier, textually sanctioned depictions of Ram as soft, smooth-bodied, almost pudgy, smiling, benign, and above all gentle and tranquil (see figs. 93 and 129), to the more recent muscular versions whose rasa or mood is (according to Kapur) predominantly ugra: "angry, exercised ... punishing" (75), emphasizing his bow and arrows in their capacity as weapons rather than as mere iconographic markers (fig. 138). Kapur describes how the characterization of Rama's compassionate, tender, composed, and non-muscular spans several different textual, pictorial, and performative cultural forms following the first written appearance of the Ramayana story sometime between 500 BCE and 300 CE. The departure from these established iconographic conventions, Kapur argues, is made possible by "the making of a virile Hinduism," which accompanies the encroachment of "realism," and particularly the depiction of a "virile" physiognomy, onto the mythic or iconic image.

-- Kautilya3 (talk) 19:16, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

The muscular Rama also makes his appearance in this video of a so-called "Ram Bhajan", a "Ram Navmi special" from 2 years ago. Here is another copy branded with "Bajrang Dal & RSS". I am sure this song and others like it have been played throughout the country this year too. And, then they ask, why do they throw stones? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 23:30, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Pandey, who was a BJP worker till a while ago, says that such songs became popular around 2013-14. They are now played at political rallies and shobha yatras. A number of these songs are also remixed to make them dance-worthy. “People listen to them in programmes organised by Hindu organisations, and during festivals like Ram Navami and Hanuman Jayanti,” Pandey says. He hints at the political support for his work. “Only people with a strong backing can do this work.”

-- Kautilya3 (talk) 23:56, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

References

Proposed merge of April 2022 Indian communal violence into Ram Navami riots#2022 riots

the relevant section of the destination page can be expanded to include the details from the source page. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 01:57, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

support merge @MPGuy2824: Joyous! | Talk 19:38, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 07:37, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Stone pelting needs to included

Many WP:RS sources have mentioned about multiple instances of stone pelting on the processions, which is missing from lead As per WP:NPOV, we need a more balanced lead.

As the processions pass through sensitive areas, the devotees participating in the Ram Navami procession often face stone pelting from mobs.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/nia-arrests-16-accused-in-west-bengal-ram-navami-violence-case/article67889421.ece

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cities/mumbai-news/400-booked-20-arrested-for-rioting-and-assault-during-ram-navami-in-malad-west-101680291149831.html RogerYg (talk) 03:54, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

You wrote "in several instances". Can you explain what you mean by "instance" and what you mean by "several"? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 06:43, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the discussion on this important topic. It means that in multiple cases of Ram Navami related communal clashes , there have been stone pelting on the procession.

This is supported by referenced sources, which include incidents from Maharashtra and West Bengal.

There are many more such incidents with sources, if you would like some more references.

Also, please suggest if you have better grammar/language instead of "several instances", and we can replace with that.

I don't think it's WP:UNDUE, as it's very important information mentioned in several incidents in the body, that needs to be summarized and mentioned briefly in the lead. Also, I think it's important to have this information for a more balanced and factual lead per WP:NPOV.

Thanks again. It's great to have an experienced editor like you for guidance on this topic. RogerYg (talk) 07:45, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for your reply.

• In the first place, MOS:LEAD summarises the body. So the information should be first added to the body, in the concerned section.
• Secondly, charges and arrests do not count as information. They can only be stated with WP:in-text attribution, not in Wikipedia voice.
• Thirdly, unless the content you are writing is directly stated by the source, it counts as summarisation, and you would need editor WP:CONSENSUS to agree that it is an accurate summarisation.

-- Kautilya3 (talk) 08:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Thanks a lot Kautilya3 (talk), for your detailed response explaining MOS:LEAD , WP:in-text attribution, & WP:CONSENSUS

I think all these especially MOS:LEAD is satisfied as there are already over 15 incidents in the body that mention stone pelting on the Ram Navami procession , with most of the cases the content is directly stated in the source.

Please note these incidents mentioned in the body

2024: On 17 April 2024, violence erupted against a Ram Navami procession in Shaktipur area of West Bengal's Murshidabad. Stones were pelted at the procession from rooftops.[73][74][75] A day later, Vishva Hindu Parishad demanded a NIA probe to the incident.[76]

1984–1993

According to police records, 17 persons were murdered, 90 injured, 226 houses burnt and 143 shops were looted in Bhatkal, Karnataka. The riots were sparked off on April Fools' Day, when a stone was reportedly hurled at a Rama Navami procession.[31]

2009 Pusad riot

Rama Navami procession in Pusad, Maharashtra was disrupted and stones were pelted which led to a violent riot. Over 70 shops were burnt and property was damaged in the riots.[33]

2022 riots

Clashes were reported at least from 2 places in the state of Jharkhand, Bokaro and Lohardaga, on Rama Navami. In Bokaro, a few youth were attacked on their way to a Rama Navami procession. In Lohardaga, the violence was on a larger scale with the mob who rallying have set a fire on several vehicles. At least 12 people were injured in a clash that included stone-pelting during a Ram Naomi procession, three of them in critical condition.[51][47]

In Goa, clashes were reported when stones were pelted on Rama Navami procession.[47]

2023 riots

On 30 March local youths thrashed a group of bike-born youths raising objectionable and communally charged slogans in Kiradpura area of Aurangabad. The incident resulted into stone pelting, followed by torching of at least nine police vehicles.[59] One person succumbed to a bullet wound while 14 policemen, including five officers, were injured.[60]

On the night of 30 March, two groups clashed during procession at Malvani area of Malad (West) in Mumbai. Stones were pelted on homes in the area, devotees when they were carrying forward a Shobha Yatra of Rama with loud music and high-volume DJ. Later 20 people were arrested for pelting stones at the procession.[61][62]

In the Howrah district of West Bengal, tension erupted after stones were allegedly pelted at the procession.[63][64] Violence continued for a second day with reports of stone pelting and vehicles being torched.[65]

Stone-pelting incident was reported from Gujarat's Vadodara on 31 March. Two processions were taken out by Hindu right wing outfits - VHP and Bajrang Dal.

I think with all these incidents, it would be approprite to briefly mention stone pelting in the lead as per your guidelines. Thanks again for your kind response. RogerYg (talk) 04:41, 21 April 2024 (UTC)