Talk:Shell to Sea

Bias

This entire article is nothing more than S2S propaganda. Anything citing 'Indymedia' should be taken with a large pinch of salt anyway but there is absolutely no balance here. What about protestors smearing themselves with ketchup, illegal occupation of land etc. I might also note the not so subtle use of Michael McDowell as a hate figure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DaraghM (talk • contribs) 17:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The section current events in this article is taking a political viewpoint. An article here should not take a viewpoint and should only be descriptive. The gardai do not take sides if so evidence and citation should be provided.

Fixed.

Citation needed on the Carrowmore Lake claims.

Checking it out now, will add it as soon as I have it.

• I've removed the POV tag, as the concerns expressed here seem to have been addressed. Lurker ^oi! 15:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

there is a sentence in this article which doesn't make sense. It says that the proof that Sinn Fein are not involved in this issue is that members of Sinn Fein ARE involved. I'm not sure what the real situation is, so I cannot edit this part of the article. maybe someone else would like to? 89.100.247.241 21:28, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

One of the Rossport Five is a Sinn Féin member, although I don't think he's very active. Sinn Féin's general election candidate for Mayo, Gerry Murray, has spoken at the protests, and Sinn Féin members are active in the Shell to Sea branches in the cities. They are involved informally, just like members of Labour, the Green Party, the Socialist Party etc.

Lapsed Pacifist 13:19, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

340 Bar pipeline

It says in the article that the gas will be at 340 bar . This is un ture the operational pressure will be 160 bar.

Where is your figure from?

Lapsed Pacifist 13:56, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Indymedia - SF/IRA

I've removed the citation for Indymedia. See: WP:SPS. I've also done a little tidying up in the SF/IRA accusation section. The edit to remove bias went just as far in the other direction. --sony-youth^pléigh 18:59, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I've just learned Sinn Féin are more involved in this controversy than I thought. Sinn Féin member Paddy Ruddy, who lives a couple of miles from the refinery site, works for Shell.

Lapsed Pacifist 14:24, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Tell that to Tony O'Reilly! --sony-youth^pléigh 15:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I shudder to think of what the Independent would make of it.

Lapsed Pacifist 13:19, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Sources

This page laready has a tag re lacking sources, and people are still adding unsourced stuff [1].

This [2] actually has a source, which allows one to note that some important text but a significant 40 per cent said they had no opinion on the issue or were not really interested. The findings suggest that on the ground in Mayo, the issue may not be as divisive as the national media claims was deemed to unimportant to report. The concluding line of the edit, This is similar to national trends., doesn't appear to be supported (or meaningful; "trends" means time-varying) William M. Connolley (talk) 21:54, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I've added a few cn tags. Unless someone starts reffing this stuff properly, or explaining here why it should stay despite any sources, its going William M. Connolley (talk) 20:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Corrib gas project has a least two national poll links. When I reach a computer that can copy and paste, I'll give you citations that can easily be found if you bothered to do even cursory research. Strong feeling on the project is not distributed evenly throughout Mayo; people in Belmullet tend to have stronger opinions than those in Ballyhaunis. Can you guess why?

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 14:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Jolly good. When you find the refs, do please re-insert the material together with the refs. Until then, please leave it alone. As to guessing... no, I'd rather not. Wikipedia isn't supposed to be built on guesswork William M. Connolley (talk) 22:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

POV pushing

There is no way that this [3] can be acceptable. The totally unsourced statement that "this is broadly similar to national trends" is re-introduced; the unwelcome news that "the findings suggest that on the ground in most of Mayo, the issue may not be as divisive as the national media claims" becomes only one newspapers opinion.

If you have some spare energy to work on this article, please use it to dig up refs for the all too many unrefd statements William M. Connolley (talk) 14:04, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Apparently [4], one should look at Corrib gas project for some evidence. I'm puzzled as to how the casual reader of the intro to this article can be expected to guess that William M. Connolley (talk) 14:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

2007 / 8

Having asked repeatedly for citations for this stuff, and received none, I've finally removed the uncited material. Please don't restore it unless you can find reliable citations, or can present here some reason why it should be allowed to violate the std rules William M. Connolley (talk) 20:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Broadly similar to

LP said that the Mayo poll produced results "broadly similar to national trends", and produced [5] in support. I read that to say Fifty-five per cent wanted the gas to be processed offshore with a lowpressure pipeline connected to the gas terminal at Bellanaboy. One-third of those surveyed wanted the project to continue in its current format and 55%:33% is not broadly similar to 3:1, its notably less. This does rather demonstrate the virtue of sourcing statements William M. Connolley (talk) 21:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

This [6] is nonsense. If you want to repeat it, please address the problem I've raised just above William M. Connolley (talk) 22:19, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Priestly fun

Incidentally, this [7] is fun. It was cited elsewhere, but oddly enough the line "we believe most people are not opposed to the gas coming ashore" wasn't quoted William M. Connolley (talk) 21:31, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Practically no-one in the area is opposed to the gas coming ashore. They just want it done safely, like it is in Cork. What's odd about that? Do you often have fun with priests, William?

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 13:00, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Removal of 2 Pictures and Blog

I am puzzled by the removal of 2 pictures showing various protests taking place .Is this supposed to indicate those protests didn't take place because nobody has a citation from a newspaper etc that says they did.

Also the removal of a ciation from journalist Colm Rapple blog .Apart from being a fairly well respected journalist his blog contents appear to be a reprint of his newspaper columns in one handy location .Garda40 (talk) 22:50, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I may have got carried away, sorry. To me the blog just looked like a blog, and blogs aren't usually WP:RS though there are exceptions. This might be one. But it would be better to link to the original article. The pics: got hacked when I cut a lot of unsourced stuff from 2007 I think. They could go back if you like (but perhaps not so big?) William M. Connolley (talk) 23:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

After doing a quick search on the newspaper site Daily Mail there doesn't seem to be an Irish section or links to the articles themselves which may be the reason he has a blog .Garda40 (talk) 23:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

External links

One editor says there are not enough citations in this article. Now another says there are too many external links. I think both of you need to talk to each other.

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 15:14, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

The two are not contradictory. Text within the article needs more sourcing. There may be too many links bunged in under ext lins, I don't know William M. Connolley (talk) 21:17, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

It would be more accurate to say that the two are not necessarily contradictory, but please don't rule out the possibility. Don't let me stop you doing any sourcing you care to do.

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 18:53, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Removing speculation (no matter how convenient for some)

LP reverted [8] with the comment Removing speculation (no matter how convenient for some). B ut... its a direct quote from the newspaper cited. So... I'm having a hard time understanding how that revert is justified, other than don't-like-wot-it-sez. Do please explain William M. Connolley (talk) 22:35, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it's helpful in any contentious article to use words like nonsense in the edit summary even if the claim is justified .Garda40 (talk) 00:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Which it isn't. What national media have claimed the issue is divisive throughout the whole of Mayo, William? Like I told you before, the issue is not the hot potato in Ballyhaunis that it is in Belmullet, for reasons of simple geography. The article isn't linked because of its intrinsic worth, it's because it contains details of a relevant poll. One might as well try to say that Kosovan independence is a divisive issue in Europe. It isn't really (I don't know anyone who's fallen out over it in my corner of Europe, for example), apart from one particular corner of Europe, where it is extremely divisive. The language of this journalist you like quoting so much is careless. I could easily quote from other linked articles to give a completely different (and more accurate) viewpoint. I haven't, because the introduction to the article is not the place for journalistic speculation. Especially of the quality you favour.

Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 12:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)