Talk:WikiIslam

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Faith Freedom International was copied or moved into WikiIslam with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Text and/or other creative content from this version of WikiIslam was copied or moved into Ex-Muslims of North America with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

delete, August 27, 2014, see discussion.
delete, May 16, 2007, see discussion.

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RfC on the labels given to Wikiislam as "anti-Muslim" or "Islamophobic" in its WP voice

Is the anti-Muslim or Islamophobic labelling of Wikiislam—a site focused on criticising Islam—in its WP voice justified under Wikipedia's rules? The site does not declare itself as such (anti-Muslim or Islamophobic), but a Swedish scholar, Goran Larsson, claims it is so, which was followed by two others. Another source says that the site is anti-Islam, a much different term than anti-Muslim. Where Islam is the religion, Muslims are the adherents. The other 3 reliable sources do not label it as such and consider the site reliable enough to be used as their source in their criticism of Islam. The label "anti-Muslim" gives the impression that the site is like a racist site that must be banned and Muslims should avoid it, even though that is not the case when looking at its content and the site itself is managed by ex-Muslims. As far as I know, Wikipedia policy prohibits opinions—even if they are widespread—from being placed in the WP voice, even more so if they are controversial. But one or two users disagree with that and want to keep the labelling. So what are your opinions?
Ongoing discussion can also be seen at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#Wikiislam LiuWu87 (talk) 05:34, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please wait for NPOVN to conclude. Thanks, TrangaBellam (talk) 05:35, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:RFCBRIEF. TrangaBellam (talk) 05:45, 27 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard regarding the use of "anti-Muslim" and "Islamophobic" in Wikivoice on this page. The thread is Should labels given to a website by some secondary sources that contradict the website's own statement be placed in the opening sentence in WP voice?. Thank you. Snuish (talk) 16:26, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sydney Morning Herald reference, FFI quote

In this edit, User:My very best wishes removed a Sina quote but left a reference to the Sydney Morning Herald article from which the quote was taken in place.

As a result, explanatory footnote a. now reads, in total: FFI mentions its aim to lie in "'unmask[ing] Islam and help Muslims leave [the faith]".[11] ([11] being the Sydney Morning Herald reference.)

This has created the misleading impression that the cited Sydney Morning Herald article contains the "unmask[ing]" quote (which it does not; that quote is in fact unsourced). Either the Sina quote should be restored or the Sydney Morning Herald reference deleted as well. What's preferable?

As for the FFI quote, the current wording doesn't match what's on the faithfreedom.org website. Sina says there, At Faith Freedom we want to demonstrate the fallacy of Islam and help Muslims leave this dangerous cult that is threatening the peace of the world.

The "unmask" version of the quote we are currently hosting stems from p. 162 of [1], which looks like a good source (published 2014), but we can see for ourselves that the quote given there isn't accurate. I checked the Internet Archive, and the wording in Sina's piece was "demonstrate the fallacy" rather than "unmask" even back in 2004, the oldest copy available in the Wayback Machine: [2]. Conversely I was unable to find the string "unmask Islam and help muslims leave" anywhere online other than Wikipedia and the book in question.)

So let's fix that quote as well (it'll need to be fixed in Sina's article as well). Thoughts?

Cheers, Andreas JN 466 17:43, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I simply think that personal opinions by Ali Sina that are not on the subject of this page (WikiIslam) belong to another page, i.e. Ali Sina (activist). On that another page his views should be sourced to RS and correctly cited per WP:BLP. I would rather avoid a direct citation in case of such discrepancies. My very best wishes (talk) 18:05, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with My very best wishes regarding both of the points made above. In the Tracks of Breivik presumably went through publisher-review where such quotes would have been checked. Where we have a source that meets WP:RS requirements, we need not refer to a primary source. I also see other websites that provide a similar, but not identical, description of FFI's aims: "to (a) unmask Islam and show that it is an imperialistic ideology akin to Nazism but disguised as religion and (b) to help Muslims leave it, end this culture of hate caused by their 'us' vs. 'them' ethos and embrace the human race in amity." Snuish (talk) 19:10, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've fixed the reference. I appreciate you catching that. Snuish (talk) 19:19, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Larsson correctly cited a WikiIslam FAQ he accessed in 2013. Can we correct the grammar and change the tense, keeping Larsson as the reference? FFI has stated that its aim is to "unmask Islam and help Muslims leave [the faith]". Regards, --Andreas JN 466 12:40, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Change made, diff: [3] --Andreas JN 466 13:43, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]