[[User:Dilek2|Dilek2]] ([[User talk:Dilek2|talk]]) 22:38, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
[[User:Dilek2|Dilek2]] ([[User talk:Dilek2|talk]]) 22:38, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
==Ottoman==
Hi there!
I'm having some trouble trying to update some of the history sections in certain countries (in the Western Balkans) which follow a rather outdated perception of what the the Ottoman Empire was. As you may know, many scholars over the past two decades have relied on recently opened archives to revise some of the orientalist views of the past. I'm sure you would agree this needs to be reflected in the articles? Maybe you can help me in this endeavour? [[User:Ottomanist|Ottomanist]] ([[User talk:Ottomanist|talk]]) 23:46, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
Vikipedide doğruluk ve objektif politikalarını savunan tüm Türk Vikipedistlere
Vikipedide doğruluk ve objektif politikalarını savunan tüm Türk Vikipedistlere.
Kars sayfasında MarshallBagramyan adlı bir kullanıcı Kars maddesini gasp edip, Ermenice versiyonundaki adını bırakıp diğer dillerdeki versiyonlarını hep siliyor. Tartışma sayfasında gerekçesi de objektif değil çünkü Kars'ın diğer etnisitelerini ve tarihlerini kasten göz ardı eden bir milliyetçi anlayışı var. Savunması da bu yönde.
Ve bu tartışma sayfasında senelerdir çözülmüş değil çünkü öyle bir niyet yok, ve denetimciler tarafından göz yumuluyor.
Hangi duyarlı Vikipedist artık bunu ciddiye alıp, tek taraflı "değişiklikleri" denetleyip dur diyecek?
Çünkü adeta lobi faaliyetlerin Vikipedideki yansıması bu ve hiç kimse bir göz atıp dur demiyor, maalesef Türk Vikipedistler de dahil. "Tartışma sayfasında bunu tartışın" önerisi (çünkü ihmal ediliyor ve çözüme yönelik bir çaba yok) yerine bir bu maddeyi ve bunun gibi diğer maddeleri denetleyip ve bunun gibi kullanıcıların değişiklikerine oldu bitti demeyip, yapılan böyle tek taraflı "değişiklikleri" geri alın. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.224.112.248 (talk) 13:51, 3 January 2012 (UTC)
Geo stub
Hello, Nedim Ardoğa. You have new messages at Dawynn's talk page. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Thanks for the tip.
Expanded the link a bit more. Think it reads even better this way: Claude Crowl. Thank you for your very thoughtful advice and assistance.Lindsay658 (talk) 00:50, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
creating or expanding dab pages
Hi Nedim Ardoğa! I realize that by creating new articles you sometimes need to create also the appropriate dab page. If you don't mind I will suggest you to use template:intitle to find other article names refering that name. Cheers. CeeGee (talk) 14:38, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
I notice you have uploaded some pictures of Byzantine sites in Cilicia. Do you know anything of this place and the buildings depicted in this article: Akner monastery? The buildings depicted are not Armenian and may not actually be from this location. Meowy 17:36, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
I am afraid I'm not familiar with the monastery in Eğner. But in most Cilician religious buildings, stones from former buildings were used. Sometimes, you can see Ancient, Roman and Byzantine styles in a single building at different levels. If I can find relevant info, I'll call you. Meanwhile you can see this link [1] taken during the dam construction.Cheers.Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 18:16, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. The "Arthur_G_78" whose name appears beside some of the pictures on your link is the same person (under a different name) who created the Wikipedia "Akner monastery" article. He is well-known for faking images and calling things "Armenian" when they are not! He also steals photographs - the photographs are not his. These churches look very similar to those at Binbirkilise near Karaman,and also slightly like Alahan - so they are probably early Byzantine from the pre-Arab period. They do not look like they have been altered. Meowy 20:26, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
I have been to Alahan and Binbir Kilise. This image doesn't belong to Alahan. I am not so sure about Binbir Kilise. I admit there is some similarity to the church in Madenşehri. But all the same I am inclined to think that this image doesn't belong to Binbirkilse either. You can compare it with [2] Cheers.Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 20:42, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
I've been to both too (but not to the church on the mountain top). There is not much left at Binbirkilise compared to what was there 100 years ago. The big church in the village has an apse that from the outside does seem similar to this "Akner monastery" church. I was mentioning those sites because they were similar in style to the church in the Akner pictures, not because I thought that they might be the same place. But these "Akner monastery" buildings, even if they are at Eğner, must be known under another name in some source some where. Meowy 17:25, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Overcategorization with Mediterranean Region, Turkey
Hi Cee Gee why don’t you try to be a bit more cooperative. When using the Category :Mediterranean Region, Turkey, I see no conflict to the principles stated in Wikipedia:Overcategorization. Province and geographical region are two different things. In most cases, the region doesn’t cover the whole province. For example, half of Muğla Province is in Aegean Region and the the other half is in Mediterranean Region. Similarly different parts of Kahramanmaraş Province are in four different regions. Thus both the region and the province can be used for geographical features. Cheers. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 15:23, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi! I am really surprised for your negative thought about me. I am fully cooperative with you. I acknowledge and appreciate your efforts, no doubt abut it. What I am doing is to expand, whereever I can, and improve the quality of WP:Turkey articles. That's it. About the overcategorization: It is not fatal. You can keep them. No problem. However, I am sure that some time you will come to the same conclusion that I have. Cheers. CeeGee (talk) 06:09, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
No absolutely no negative thought about you. I don't want to be misunderstood. I appreciate your efforts to contribute to articles about Turkey and Turkish people. But have you realized that you and I are among the very few Wikipedians who contribute to this project ? Most of the others whose names only appear on page histories are no more active. So I prefer to create instead of reverts. (Besides, clearing a Region category doesn't contribute to contents of an article) Happy editting. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:34, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
My POV is that WP Turkey articles should have almost the same quality standards as of articles from other WP's. When you look around, you will realize that "region categories" are used in cases, where the article covers more than one province, e.g. in case of roads, rivers, mountains etc. Cheers. CeeGee (talk) 18:30, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
Türk Tarihinin Tahrifi!
Hun Tarihi, Göktürk Tarihi Wikipedia'da tahrif ediliyor! Duyarlı olun! Böri (talk) 14:07, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
Yanıt verdiğiniz için teşekkürler. Talk:Qapaghan Qaghan sayfasında Kapgan adının modern(!?) kullanım olduğu iddia ediliyor. (ve maddeden çıkarılmış!)Ben yanıt vermeye çalıştım. Çok basit gibi durabilir ama binlerce aleyhte yazı var. Saygılar Böri (talk) 15:06, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
I noticed that you have posted comments to the page User talk:Böri in a language other than English. When on the English-language Wikipedia, please always use English, no matter to whom you address your comments. This is so that comments may be comprehensible to the community at large. If the use of another language is unavoidable, please provide a translation of the comments. For more details, see Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. Thank you. __meco (talk) 15:16, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
To be understandable to all, I always prefer to use English in my messages. You can see it in my archieves. But this particular editor wrote me in Turkish and I replied him in Turkish too. In talk pages I often see such examples. Cheers. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 15:34, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
We know English :) (Sometimes everyone speaks their own language! This is NOT a problem!) Böri (talk) 15:35, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
It is a problem for America's paranoia-driven "Homeland Security" laws which do not like non-English language message boards. (You might be planning all sort of nasty things using your strange language that nobody in the CIA can read!) Most message board providers that use US-based hosting insist on English-language only postings as part of their contract. This will be the origin of this Wikipedia nonsense. Meowy 16:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
These are the rules. You decide what you want to do with them. __meco (talk) 18:09, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
OK, I don't like non English messages in English encyclopaedia and I'll be even more carefull in the future. But I really wonder if you warn other editors in whose pages I frequently see foreign language messages. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 19:18, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
Ah, but the difference is yours was in Turkish, not a European language and spoken in a country full of Muslims! Meowy 22:37, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
I usually make this point whenever I come across editors not using English. In this case I'm doing it also because Böri is involved. Böri is somewhat of a rogue editor whom I welcomed to the project and who has on a number of occasions come to me for help when he's (or she's, although I doubt it) gotten himself into trouble. I try and be supportive as well as instructional about what is appropriate conduct, and so I felt it imperative to react in the current matter, even though it's a matter many editors will let slide. __meco (talk) 23:09, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
NOT she! I wanted your help because "the gang" was attacking me! (They were acting like "agents"!) / The other person (who wrote Kapgan is a Modern Turkish name!) is an Anti-Turk. He is not a Turk (this is normal). He always writes against the Turks. He wants to destroy the articles about the Turkish History on Wikipedia. (I wrote to Nedim Ardoğa for that reason). Böri (talk) 05:27, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
I always appreciate your good intentions, Böri. The only issues are a) doing things according to the rules, i.e. the policies and guidelines of Wikipedia, and b) using appropriate, third-party, reliable sources to support your contentions. __meco (talk) 07:50, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Point of interest - in the early 2000s I was thinking of setting up a message board which would have had postings in English, Turkish and Armenian. I tried to check with various US-based hosting companies but they all told me that it was forbidden to have a message board where postings would be in "non European" languages, and that this rule was because of specific instructions from the US Dept. of Homeland Security. I believe that this is the origin of the Wikipedia guideline. Meowy 22:37, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Well I hope after this over productive discussion, everything is clear. By the way in guidelines English messages are preferred and not compulsory. To be sure a translation is required for the third party. Well let me do it now: Böri asked me to be careful about falsification about deep history of Turks. I replied in Böri's talk page remarking that there are well over 4.5 million articles in Wikipedia and I asked him about the particulars. He answered me that the problem was Qapaghan Qaghan 's page. OK ? Happy editting to all. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 07:09, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Wow... that's bad. The Homeland Security part. I doubt Wikipedia's guidelines stem from that. __meco (talk) 08:06, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Really appreciate your efforts to starting some of the missing smaller Turkish towns and being consistent with quality. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:54, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. But the problem is that I've run out of places I'm personally familier with. So I need sources for the others and it is often next to impossible to find reliable sources. Well I try my best.Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:16, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
~
Türkçe Viki
Selamlar. Az önce rastladım da size, merakımdan soruyorum. Türkçe Viki'de katkı yapmamanızın özel bir sebebi var mıdır? Tabii çok özel değilse :) İyi günler.--Rapsar (talk) 20:30, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
Evet var. 2009 yılında 90 kadar madde ürettim. ([3] )ODTÜ'de okuyan oğlum da kullanıcıydı. Bir tartıuşma sayfasında benimle aynı görüşü paylaşınca kukla suçlamasıyla engellendim. Yeni bir isim alıp ta devam etmektense İngilizce Wikipedia'katkı vermeyi tercih ediyorum. Böylelikle daha yararlı olabilirim. Esenlikler dilerim Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 20:43, 30 April 2012 (UTC)
Uzun aramalar sonucu denetçi isteği sayfasınız gördüm. Bir savunma dahi yapamadan engellenmişsiniz ve yazdıklarınızı görünce bence büyük bir sorun bu. Yani oğlunuz, sizinle aynı bilgisayardan girebilir (yahut aynı ağ üzerinden) ve sizinle aynı fikirleri paylaşabilir. Bu normal. Bu bilgiyi kullanıcı sayfanızda belirtebilirdiniz gerçi; ama sonuçta aynı kişi olmadığınızdan bu da zorunlu değil, bence.--Rapsar (talk) 09:46, 1 May 2012 (UTC)
Note : For those whose are interested in the above discussion, I am asked, why I haven't been active in Turkish Wikipedia.
Bir de bilginiz var mı konu hakkında bilmiyorum ama bir şey dikkatimi çekti. Van, 1547'de kuşatılmış. Ancak Süleyman, İran üzerine sefere 1548'de çıkıyor (hatta şurası da var). Nasıl oluyor ki bu?--Rapsar (talk) 10:49, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Cevabı bilmiyorum. Fakat Profesör Yaşar Yücel ve Prof Ali Sevim'in kitabına göre, Kanuni 11. seferine (2.Doğu seferi) çıkmadan önce Ulema Paşa ve Elkas Mirza'yı (Şah'ın Osmanlılar'a sığınan kardeşi) Iran'la savaşmağa göndermişti. Bununla birlikte Van'ın Osmanlılar eline kesin geçiş tarihi olarak Ağustos 1548 gösteriliyor.Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 11:09, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Evet, öncesinde bazı kuvvetlerin gönderildiği hakkında bilgim var. İşin ilginç yanı şehri alan kuvvetlerin başında Süleyman'ın olması ve kuşatmayı sonradan Ulama Paşa'ya devretmesi :)--Rapsar (talk) 11:15, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Madde içinde de kullanılan şu kaynakta Süleyman'ın 1547 yılında Elkas Mirza'yı desteklediği yazılı. İlerleyen yerlerde Van'ı ele geçirdiği falan belirtiliyor; ancak tarih yok. Burayı okuyan ve maddeyi açan kişi, yanılmış ve tarihi bu şekilde yazmış olabilir, bence.--Rapsar (talk) 11:26, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Note: This discussion is about the exact date of Van's conquest during Suleyman's second Iran campaign. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 11:09, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
Mîralay Seîd Simbélreş
Merhaba tekrardan. Mîralay Seîd Simbélreş maddesi hakkında herhangi bir kaynak yok. Türkçe Vikipedi'de silinmeye aday gösterdim. Maddedeki resim de blogvari bir siteden alınmış ve başka hiçbir yerde kullanılmamış bu resim. Ek olarak o sitede dahi kimin resmi olduğu yazılı değil :) Burada da silinmeye aday gösterebilir misiniz rica etsem? Ek olarak yukarıdaki Van Kuşatması'nın 1548 tarihinde yapıldığıyla ilgili hem maddeye kaynak ekledim hem de taşıma işlemini gerçekleştirdim.--Rapsar (talk) 14:45, 6 May 2012 (UTC)
Mahidevran
Bununla ilgilenmeniz mümkün müdür acaba? Ciddi bir vandalizm var ortada. Ek olarak Mahidevran maddesinde de bir vandalizm var. Maddenin geçmişini inceleyebilirseniz, 24 Haziran 2011 tarihinde bir kullanıcı, kaynaksız ve gerekçe göstermeden birtakım değişiklikler yapmış. O zamana kadar Kırım kökenli olan Mahidevran, o değişikliklerden sonra Arnavut kökenli oluyor, hatta kendisine "Rosne Pranverë" diye "uydurma" bir isim veriliyor (Google Books arama sonucu, buyrun). Elimdeki NTV Tarih dergisinin ekinde (tarihçi Necdet Sakaoğlu tarafından yazılmış) Kırım kökenli olduğu ve ilk adının Bosfor olduğu yazılmış (bunlar da kesin olmamakla birlikte, çoğunluk tarafından kabul edilen ve desteklenen görüşler). Yine Busbecq, Türk Mektupları adlı eserinde "Süleyman'ın, Kırım'dan gelen bir cariyeden Mustafa adında bir oğlu vardı" deniyor (adı yazmıyor yalnız). Bununla da ilgilenebilmeniz mümkün müdür?--Rapsar (talk) 17:32, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Mahidevran maddesini 18 Eylül 2009 da ben yazdım. (İngilizce Wikipedia'da 4. maddem) Elimdeki yetersiz kaynaklara göre Çerkez olabilir dedim. (... she was probably of Circassian origin). Daha sonra bir kaç kişi değişiklik yaptılar. Hatta ben de Tartışma sayfasında bu değişikliği sorguladım (Talk). Elimde başka kaynak olmadığından başkaca bie müdahalede bulunamadım. Ama sizin elinizde kaynak olduğuna göre, siz gerekli değişikliği yapabilirsiniz. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 18:33, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
İngilizcem fena olmasa da maddenin hassasiyeti sebebiyle ve burada katkı sayımız fazla olmaması sebebiyle vandalizm olarak anlaşılabileceğinden dokunmak istemiyorum. Maddenin Türkçe sürümünde şu an bir kaynaklandırma çalışması yapıyorum. Oradan erişebilirsiniz kaynağa (sf. 26). Muhtemelen Kırım kökenli, doğumu 1500 civarı ve doğum adı muhtemelen Bosfor.--Rapsar (talk) 19:22, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Ek olarak bazı kaynaklarda geçen ismi Gülbahar. Maddeye göre ise ismi Mahidevran Gülbahar :) Ufak bir karışıklık da orada olmuş.--Rapsar (talk) 19:22, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Bir sürü kaynak ekledim Türkçe Vikideki maddeye. Ağırlıklı görüş Kırım kökenli olmasına rağmen Arnavut kökenli olduğu yönünde iddialara da yer verdim kaynaklarla.--Rapsar (talk) 21:45, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Note Above discussion is about the ethnic origin of an Ottoman sultana.
Karatay Medrese
Hi,
As I see, you are editing English wikipedia since 2009, so I am surprized that you don't fully understand the purpose of redirects and why Hagia Sophia is not a redirect. Please review Wikipedia:Redirect#Purposes_of_redirects carefully. There is an item, "Sub-topics or other topics which are described or listed within a wider article". And Hagia Sophia is not a redirect because it is an article of several thousand words. It would be ridiculous to delete it and replace with a redirect, don't you think? Staszek Lem (talk) 21:55, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Sure it would be ridicilous to redirect Hagia Sophia to İstanbul. The same applies to Karatay Medrese. In the article Antalya there is only one sentence about the medrese ( covered in the list of historical buildings). Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 05:12, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Hekimoğlu Ali Paşa
ünlü Osmanlı sadrazamı Hekimoğlu Ali Paşa'nın da, aslında bir şehzade olduğu, ama şu ünlü 'porfirogenetos' kuralı yüzünden şehzadeliğinin tanınmadığı osmanlı tarihinde söylenegelir.
İddiaya göre, II.Mustafa'nın döneminde onun cariyelerinden biri gözden düşüp saraydan taşra edildi (dışarı çıkarıldı). Cariye, venedikli bir hekim iken İslâm olan ve Nuh adını alan hekimbaşı Nuh Efendi ile evlendirildi. Ancak, kısa bir süre sonra cariyenin hamile olduğu ortaya çıktı. Dünyaya gelince 'Ali' adı verilen çocuk da, sonradan saraya alındı, İyi bir eğitimle yetiştirildi. Bu şehzade sayılmayan şehzade yani, hekimoğlu Ali Paşa, devlet hizmetinde kısa sürede yükseldi ve tam üç kez sadrazamlık yaptı. Ali'nin sırası olduğu halde, onun yerine padişah olan ise I.Mahmud'tur (1730-1754). Bununla birlikte I.Mahmud, Hekimoğlu Ali Paşa'nın kendisinin ağabeyi olduğunu bilir ve ona çok saygılı davranırdı. Nitekim bir gün huzuruna kabul ettiğinde şu sözü ağzından kaçırmıştır:
- buyrun birader!
Hekimoğlu Ali Paşa iyi eğitimli, bilgili, dirayetli, cesur, dürüst ve namuslu bir devlet adamıydı. ancak, çok acımasızdı. En çok eleştirilen tarafı da çok kişiyi idam ettirmesiydi. Buna karşılık, çok da seveni vardı. Ali paşa, I.Mahmud tan sonra tahta çıkan ve en silik osmanlı padişahlarından III.Osman kendisine 'seni şimdi azleder, yerine hamalbaşı Ali Ağa'yı tâyin ederim!' deyince, padişaha şu yanıtı vermekten çekinmedi:
- elbet, yapabilirsiniz… ama o, hamalbaşı Ali ağa olur. Hekimoğlu Ali Paşa olmaz!
Hi Dilek, you don't have to get furious. I only asked for a source. Since you have the source please use it properly in the article. And two other things. Please use your signature by four tildes (~) . And please try to use English in your discussions. I am a Turk and I am proud of my language. But this page is open to other contributers as well.Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 20:21, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Note: The above discussion is about a non-sourced claim in Hekimoğlu Ali Pasha and my correspondent shows the reference.
Sure I can help. If you have a trouble in translating a specific paragraph or a sentence I'll try my best to help. But for me, having the sources, it is easier to create rather than to translate. .Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 13:44, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Osmanlı Donanması
Merhaba. Beni size Takabeg yönlendirdi. Malta Kuşatması, Hint Seferleri, Mahmudiye Kalyonu, Barbaros Hayreddin, Kıbrıs'ın Fethi, Mezomorto Hüseyin Paşa ve Mahmudiye Kalyonu'na dair kaynak bulamıyorum yeterince. Yardımcı olabilir misiniz? İnternet tabanlı birkaç kaynak da olursa süper olur, şimdiden teşekkürler. --Bermanya (talk) 15:26, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
(I presume that the above comment is by Dilek2) I am not a historian and I am not in the position to discuss the historical data. But in Wikipedia all claims (especially those which conflict with the other claims) have to be sourced. If you feel your editions are based on facts, please don't hesitate to give references for your additions. Otherwise your claims may be seen as original research and can be deleted according to Wikipedia:No original research. (If you have problems to source your claims, I will be glad to help you) In other words please source your editions instead of edit wars. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 14:24, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Ayşe Hanım Sultan Türbesi (Üsküdar)
İstanbul ili Üsküdar ilçesi Gülfem Hatun Mahallesi, Mektep Sokak, Aziz Mahmut Hüdai Türbesinin yakınında bulunan bu türbenin çevresinde birbiri içerisinden geçilen dokuz ayrı türbe daha bulunmaktadır. Bunlar Şeyh Ahmet Efendi Türbesi, Hanımefendiler Türbesi, Sadrazam Halil Paşa Türbesidir. Bu türbeler tekke ve zaviyelerin kapatılmasından sonra bakımsız kalmış, 1935–1940 tarihleri arasında ahşap çatıları çökmüş, sandukaları dağılmıştır.
Ayşe Hanım Sultan Türbesi XVI. yüzyılda yapılmış bir yapı olmasına rağmen değişik zamanlarda yapılan onarımlarla özelliğini tümü ile yitirmiştir.
Ayşe Hanım Sultan Kanuni Sultan Süleyman’ın torunu olup, Rüstem Paşa’nın kızıdır. Semiz Ahmet Paşa ile evlendirilen Ayşe Hanım Sultan’ın Abdurrahman Bey, Mehmet Bey, Şehit Mustafa Paşa ve Osman Bey isimlerinde dört oğlu olmuştur. Ayşe Hanım Sultan'ın dördüncü oğlu olan Osman Bey, h.999 (1590–1591) tarihinde ölmüş ve Mihrimah Sultan Camisi’nin Türbesine gömülmüştür.
Ayşe Hanım Sultan Türbesi yakın tarihlerde yenilenmiştir. Türbe içerisinde Ayşe Hanım Sultan’ın yanı sıra torunu Ümmügülsüm Hanım (1612) ve eşinin mezarı bulunmaktadır.
You seem to misunderstand me. I don't personally need the sources. The article needs them. Please write your references when you make the changes. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 06:15, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
Well...you dont interested in your own History...
If you claimed that a Sultanzade is always a male descendant of an ottoman princess, it is false.
Only direct son is a sultanzade, and also her daughter is a Hanimsultan...
I see many Turks claimed false thing's---
Neyse...you are the winner...If People will made Homework they will see what a sultanzade is.
Your sources is of any turkish historian without knowlege about the title sultanzade and hanimsultan...
Abdurrahmans türbe is the year 1597 and Sultanzade Mehmed is born 1603...so he cant be his father
I'm having some trouble trying to update some of the history sections in certain countries (in the Western Balkans) which follow a rather outdated perception of what the the Ottoman Empire was. As you may know, many scholars over the past two decades have relied on recently opened archives to revise some of the orientalist views of the past. I'm sure you would agree this needs to be reflected in the articles? Maybe you can help me in this endeavour? Ottomanist (talk) 23:46, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
