User talk:Nagromtpc/Archive 2006

Welcome to my talk page. Leave me a message here. Cpt. Morgan / Reinoutr

Please note that I will answer usually on this page if you post here, to keep the discussions coherent.

Mistake

Hello, you messaged me saying I had vandalised Sir John Deane's College - why? I was reverting vandalism, and mistakenly reverted to a version which had also been vandalised - no vandalism was intentional on my part.RWhite 16:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I was a bit quick in adding the remark on your page. When I looked at your contribution page I noticed that it must have been a mistake and I removed the comment from your page right after that. Cpt. Morgan 16:17, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Zoroaster

22:37, 16 February 2006 User:Zmmz:
It is immensely relevant that the statement about the origin of Angels be put right there in the first paragraph--not somewhere hidden among the more irrelevant texts. The statement answers the most important question everyone has; that is, where did angelology and demonology come from? The overwhelming majority of scholars on Bible history now agree it came from Persia. It is not a controversy, unless you want it to be, so it can serve your purpose. If the most popular and respected Bible Encyclopedias say it came from Zoroaster, through The Persian Empire--then it should be good enough.

Now that you have added the correct reference, in some cases put the text at more approriate positions and rephrased a little I have no longer objections to your statements. Prior, however, you were just adding the exact same sentence to a large number of articles, which gave the impression you were pressing through your opinion, rather than adding information. Good luck with your futur Wikipedia contributions... Cpt. Morgan 12:30, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Kosovo

Hi Cpt. Morgan, glad I could find a commong language, and understanding with you in the Kosovo page. But I am afraid you should have more nerves, if you plan to edit in that page more often. There are people who are sworn to wage revert wars, and are disrespectful of any Wikipedia rule of conduct...or any civil behavior whatsoever. So bear up with them :). I would be happy to discuss anything related to the article in general. 20:20, 23 May 2006 User:Ilir pz (howdy) '

Hey Ilir, I noticed the ongoing revert wars yes. Seems like a heated debate. I will monitor the page the coming time to try to keep it cool there. But since I am neither from kosovo nor serbia (I am dutch) I will only try to keep it NPOV, I have no real opinion on the matter. Cpt. Morgan 22:58, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Hoe gaat het, Reinoutr? Yes, I realized that you were Dutch, and the fact that you decided to contribute matters a lot to maintain the NPOV in the heated debate in Kosovo article. Hope to hear from you again sometime. By the way, I loved the Netherlands during a trip I took there. An amazing place, with very nice people. See the list of cities I visited in my userpage. I even took part on the Queen's Day (long party) ..lovely indeed. Best, ilir_pz 20:42, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Hoe gaat het, in my language would be "Si je" (read: see yeh). For the rest I will answer in the talk page of Kosovo. Dank je, ilir_pz 23:18, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

By the way, was the "third opinion" the thing you thought I would consider a threat? :) 11:36, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi cpt. Morgan, sure I understand your point.Hope smth changes, as well. Thanks for your efforts, anyways. Doei,ilir_pz 11:53, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Hoi, I put some comment in the Kosovo talk page. I think it is already a compromise from my side. Not a compromise, but according to the documents that are (unfortunately) in power in Kosovo as of now. Sorry I wasn't around for some time, had stuff to do, and just realized I was blocked :)). Doei,ilir_pz 19:03, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I responded to your comments in my talk page. I might be on and off tomorrow, hope you are not in a rush to start the proposals you mentioned. I appreciate your efforts, still. When you think better, the whole intro page will have to be changed in a couple of months, as Kosovo's formal recognition of independence is just a few months far :), and then most of us will feel stupid for wasting so much time, instead of just referring to some temporary UNSCR 1244. As simple as that. Anyways...TTYL, ilir_pz 22:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

OK. I replied, again. Take care, ilir_pz 23:01, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is my preliminary version, which complies with all 3 points that you asked me to comply with: 1) It does state that Kosovo is administered by the UN, 2) it does state Kosovo is part of a larger union/country (FRY) as defined by 1244 Resolution and 3) it should state that Kosovo will most likely become indepedent in the near future, as indicated by Contact Group statements.

Kosovo (Albanian: Kosovë/Kosova, Serbian: Косово и Метохија/Kosovo i Metohija) is a region in southeast Europe. By the UN Security Council Resolution 1244 (adopted in 1999), Kosovo is placed under United Nations administration, though de-jure it is still defined as a part of the former Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, but and runs independently of the latter. De-facto the province is run by its Provisional Institutions of Self-Government and the UN Interim Administrative Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK). Security in Kosovo is maintained by the NATO-led Kosovo Force (KFOR) and Kosovo Police Service.

Talks on the future status of Kosovo started in Vienna on February 20 2006, between the Kosovo institutions' negotiating team, and the government of Serbia. The negotiations are mediated by the international community, and enforced by the Contact Group [1]. The future of the province is set to be determined by the end of 2006, and indications show that the settlement will have to be acceptable to the people of Kosovo[2] the majority of which seek recognition of full independence for the province.

Take care, ilir_pz 12:56, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I posted a little modified version in the Kosovo talk page. Doei, ilir_pz 13:46, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the version I gave in Kosovo talk page is sufficient as of now, and as I said, it complies with all three requests you posed to me, and has credible sources cited. Sure, go ahead with the voting...hope not many sockpuppets do the "thing" there, as I know that there are many. ilir_pz 11:13, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Hoi Reinoutr, sorry for being absent for some time. I read your comment in my talk page and answered briefly. I will get back to you soon. Regards, ilir_pz 11:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Template:Kosovo

Hi Reinoutr, Please have a look at this template, where Ilir is also insisting on imposing his personal views. E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 19:40, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

wowowow, try to refrain from pointing your finger to me for nothing. Check my edits and then do so. No reason to panic for nothing. ilir_pz 00:23, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Ilir, the point is you would not accept that Kosovo is recognised as a province of Serbia, still part of Serbia and Montenegro (till the commonwealth dissolves itself, of course). You have been given all sort of facts and maps and you would still not cave in. Checking your last reply to Osli proves my point even more. I would like to remind you to check WP:OWN. Remember to agree to disagree. E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 00:33, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I agreed to disagree far too much by now, and you know it. Don't just negate the truth. If I were to disagree, things would have been much different. And no, I do not think Kosovo is a province of Serbia, you cannot get me to accept that, ever! As it is not according to the Resolution 1244, and I just don't like it :)). ilir_pz 00:43, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I told you before this is not about what you or anyone else like but about facts. And the fact is that you would rather edit-war against the rest of the world than accepting this. If you do not accept consensus I will have to ask for a request for comments as this has gone too far already. Anyway, enough is enough. This is someone else's talk page (please accept my apologies). E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 01:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear people, since this dispute (both Kosovo and Template:Kosovo) is not likely to end this way, I will watch the discussions on the talk pages for a few more days and then continue with the next step in dispute resolution, which in this case will be to have a vote on what the opening paragraph of the Kosovo article will be, according to Wikipedia:Straw_polls, giving people several options to choose from. But first, we will watch it for a few more days to see if other editors will give their opinion. Do not worry, I will not start a poll without consulting both of you and User:Osli73. Finally, just a reminder that my talk page is not the place to solve personal disputes between the two of you :). Cpt. Morgan 13:11, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

I am not particularly happy with any version making predictions (being that independence or the most likely double autonomy). I do not think that wikipedia is the place for futurology in that sense. If anything, after the introductory definition, a sentence informing the reader on the fact that there are ongoing talks should be added. Regards, E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 13:47, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I am ok if you put such a statement in a separate sentence. As far as I am concerned we are not only talking about the first sentence, but about the first paragraph (the introduction). Stating that there are ongoing talks about independence for Kosovo fulfills the 3rd criterium enough for me. Cpt. Morgan 19:44, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I think we ought to differentiate between agreed facts and speculation. Regarding Osli73, I agree with his position on principle that some things are not debatable but considering the article is in a deadlock, I cannot see an alternative. I reckon we could well create a subpage at Talk:Kosovo/Straw Poll to suggest the possible options and organise the poll. Thanks and regards, E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 20:51, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Futurology is also speculating with who has the legal rights on Kosovo, without any such indication by the UN Security council. It is not futurology to cite the Contact Group's conclusions, which openly state that the will of the majority of the population in Kosovo will be respected. I think Reinoutr's suggestion about that is more than legitimate. ilir_pz 14:31, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Ilir, why does everytime I leave a comment on any other user's talk page you turn up from nowhere? It is totally obvious I was not addressing to you (I know perfectly well where your talk page is). People can talk for themselves, you know? There is no need to reply for them. Please stop shadowing me. I do not feel comfortable. Thanks, E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 20:51, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Asterion I do not care what you talk to other users. In this case we are both discussing with Reinoutr. Whenever I am involved in a dispute and you mention my name or point the finger toward me for something, I do have the right to participate. In the particular case I have more than right to participate, and you know it. If you feel uncomfortable, do not mention my name in a discussion. cpt Morgan, sorry I had to leave this comment here, yet again. Regards, ilir_pz 23:37, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Please be civil Ilir:) C-c-c-c 23:41, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Reinoutr, I've thought things through and I have proposed to Asterion to make a common proposal. Osli73 20:17, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

This is the version we agreed on. Thanks, E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 12:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Kosovo (Albanian: Kosovë/Kosova, Serbian: Косово и Метохија/Kosovo i Metohija) is an autonomous province in southern Serbia. Following the Kosovo War in 1999, Kosovo was placed under United Nations temporary administration (UN Security Council Resolution 1244). Although it legally remains a part of Serbia, it is in fact run independently of Belgrade by the UN Interim Administrative Mission in Kosovo (UNMIK) and the Provisional Institutions of Self-Government. Security in Kosovo is maintained by the NATO-led Kosovo Force (KFOR) and the Kosovo Police Service.

Talks on the future status of Kosovo started in Vienna on February 20 2006, between the Kosovo institutions' negotiating team, and the government of Serbia. The future of the province is set to be determined by the end of 2006.

Dear Asterion and Osli73, thank you for your version. I am waiting on the last comments that TheTom gives on the version by Ilir, so he can incorporated those if he wants to. I appreciate the efforts that are now undertaken by TheTom, but I am afraid it will also not lead to a way out of this stalemate. Before starting a poll, I will also talk to him. Cpt. Morgan 15:01, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Reinoutr, I am in no rush to start the vote. I would suggest to create a clean subpage and list the proposals so far. I really would like for anyone involved to have the opportunity to have their say. This way we guarantee a higher degree of consensus. Regards, E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 21:53, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Reinoutr, please see my comments to your recent entry on my Talk page.Osli73 08:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I apologize

...that I was so careless. P. S. I have noticed your generally negative attitude towards me as a person. Why the fire? ;) --HolyRomanEmperor 15:24, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Understood! --HolyRomanEmperor 16:52, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry

One of the comments you removed has been certainly written by a sockpuppet of a previously perma-blocked user, Hipi Zhdripi. This is why I expressed my concern on the possibility of sockpuppets before... --E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 16:54, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Unless both the sockpuppet and the puppeteer vote, I do not consider it a big problem. If that happens, we should inform an administrator I suppose. Cpt. Morgan 17:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Moved to subpage

Good morning, Reinoutr. I have moved the ongoing discussion on the intro changes to a subpage. I also think we should do some archiving for the main Talk:Kosovo page, as it is incredibly long and takes absolute ages to load up when editing. As it stands, it is 256Kb instead less than 80Kb as advised. The problem is that you are only meant to archive finished discussions but that, on a subject like this, is totally impossible! Cheers, E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 09:56, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes I noticed your did that Asterion, I think it is a good choice. Maybe it will also keep less serious people out of the discussion. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 10:12, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Removing PROD Tags

PROD tags can be removed by anyone without any questions asked. It's just a proposal for deletion, this just keeps Wikipedia honest and keeps an influx of rules from bogging us down. Thank you, btw, for your contributions. I'm taking the article to AfD. Yanksox ^(talk) 14:43, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Fine with me, but it was listed as a non-copyright violating copy/paste, so I just started cleaning up the article. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 14:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

It's fine, I listed it originally for copy and paste since a copyright wasn't established till I went further and did find copy-vio. So, still thank you. :) Yanksox ^(talk) 14:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Shrivaishnavism

Hi, great to find you wikifying the captioned page, jsut created by me. --Bhadani 15:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! --Bhadani 15:13, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

You are welcome, but I regularly wikify new and unwikified pages, regardless of the topic. However, I must say you make very good new topics, so keep up the good work! Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 20:14, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Admin Tony

Hi, thanks for the note. Unfortunately, I don't think I should really speak my mind on this matter, as I was recently involved in another dispute with this very admin and I would not be surprised if he reads this. For the sake of remaining civil and in good faith, I will leave it at that.

On the subject of other admins, however, I'm sure that eventually someone else will come along and get involved. It is, after all, posted on the Admin noticeboard, and most admins check new posts regularly, as far as I know. I think that the actions taken by this user are wrong, and I'm sure that many others would agree with us. It's only a matter of time. romarin [talk ] 21:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Tony

Hi Reinoutr, or Cpt. Morgan if you prefer. I've worked with Tony Sidaway a bit, and I would say he's kind of an old-school administrator, who remembers when Wikipedia was far less rule-bound than it seems to be now — and it's still pretty anarchic in many ways. I know he can come across as rather abrasive and opinionated, but I believe he has a deep understanding of the project we're working on, and his positive contributions to the encyclopedia are significant enough to convince a lot of people to give him pretty free rein. A lot of others disagree, as Romarin indicated above. I won't say he's an uncontroversial guy, but he's definitely someone you can talk to about your concerns. I've seen him be very communicative with editors who approach him in a collegial spirit, but he's also got buttons you can push. -GTBacchus^(talk) 22:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

GTBacchus puts it very well (thanks GT for saving me the trouble!). Tony often takes bold and controversial actions. Sometimes people disagree with these actions that they find it necessary to block him - but notice also, as you pore through his block log, that he is also unblocked pretty often. I firmly believe that he always intends to act for the best interest of Wikipedia. The way he goes about it might not sit too well with everyone, but more often than not he turns out to be right. FreplySpang 00:07, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a perfectly sound explanation, I didn't know the guy, so I was just checking :). Thanks for the information. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 00:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

TheCooler

I have explained this before in the noticeboard. I am not a new user, but a returning one. I hold no grudge over you reporting me. You thought it was the right thing to do, the same way I did when I removed the boxes. I admit it was an impulsive action that I took with no much reflection. Thanks TheCooler

Username

I did not realise that there was a rule against Arabic usernames. Wikipedia rules are obtuse and it is difficult to understand its complex procedures, so I didn't know this. I have changed my signature now. Thank you for your advice.--الأهواز | Hamid 10:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I have just read another rule that says that if I obscure my username in any way it will be seen as disruptive. So, I have included both my first name and my username in my signature. Please tell me if that is acceptable.--الأهواز | Hamid | Ahwaz 10:39, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Kosovo

The current intro is the worst that Kosovo article ever had. It is even worse than during Milosevic's regime in Kosovo. It is shocking to just read through it. I think I will get back to reverting those horrible parts. And I am more shocked that someone just decided to adopt it because some admin thought it is fair. And all those proposals, including your conditions, went down the drain? Even if I get blocked, I do not care. This version is just terrible. ilir_pz 11:03, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

What's this problem over Kosovo that you have with Ilir pz? --HolyRomanEmperor 15:43, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Ilir, how can you say that the current intro on the Kosovo article "is even worse than during Milosevic's regime in Kosovo"? What, exactly, is it that is so shocking? Be specific. Also, I would hope that you would work with the other editors rather than becoming a renegade.Osli73 21:17, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

All of it is wrong, and much more pro-serbian than the version that existed before the protection was lifted. ilir_pz 11:05, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Reinoutr, for all your continued efforts. Do not take some people's attacks personally. I have been there myself. They are nice to you as long as you seem to agree with them. As I suspected, we now have a new batch of sockpuppets coming up too. On a different matter, really sorry about Holland being out of the World Cup :( --E Asterion ^{u talking to me?} 07:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Me too, I've always liked the Little Big Dutch. ;) --HolyRomanEmperor 13:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Both thanks for these comments :). However, I am not a big soccer fan myself, so it doesn't really bother me. With regard to the Kosovo article(s), I will try to keep an eye on them and see how things develop. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 14:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

TIBET ARTICLES

Hello. Yes I have edited a great deal but I knew about the links but I was using instead of [[ ]]. This is why it wasn't working! I am constantly amazed how many articles have not been started on Wikipedia. Tibet I have noticed has a number of even large towns/features/counties which haven't yet been covered, yet alone villages. I have a great deal of knowledge about Tibet to add to the project, a country I find particularly fascinating and am glad to add some of my knowledge to, to share and educate other people. I have started and written a good number of articles already. What do you think of the latest Tibetan contributions? James Janderson

Re: Single-celled Organisms

Of course, no problem for me. I was merely trying to keep consistent with existing redirects... Go and change them as you please... :))) -- Grafikm ^(AutoGRAF) 22:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

TOWNS OF ASIA

hI. I am constantly amazed at how many large towns have not been covered by wikipedia!!! Some places that are important places in countries such as Nepal and Tibet are not yet covered. These articles should not only exist but should have a wealth of information about them, including their demographic, cultral, historical,features which should be added in detail.Wikipedia I learn is one of the most visited sites on the world Internet so really this info should exist. I think that we should all contribute to wikipedia to make it THE greatest compilement of human knowledge that ever existed free to everybody on the planet. I have begun by establishing geographical articles in some of my spare time in many of the relatively uncovered countries of Asia which will inevitably be added to at a later date. The article count for wikipedia should be 1,218,000,000 not the current!! I am also gradually learning to wikify-thanks for your help! I hope I am doing a good job of wikipedia!

James Janderson

Carol & Cheryl

Thanks for helping this page! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nicoken (talk • contribs) .

JOE SATRIANI

HI. I AM A MAJOR FAN OF JOE SATRIANI AND PLAY ALONG WITH HIS CDS AND DVDS WITH THE AMP TURNED UP!! BUT HIS ARTICLE REALLY NEEDS A PICTURE AT THE BEGINNING. COULD YOU FIND ONE THAT IS FREE OF COPYRIGHT? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by James Janderson (talk • contribs) .

Is there any way to get the deletion notes etc. rmeoved now the truth has been shown on the page? I'd like to finish the document.

MONGOL

hi i have now added hundreds and hundreds of new great articles to the project! but I want to start a new category of Mongol mythology. I have kind of done this but I want it to be a category on the Mythology by culture page. How can you do this? James Janderson 15:58, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

TIBET

HI. I have been doing a lot more more on Tibet its history and spiritual laeders and many others. I have done about 80% of the Potala palace article now and have done many others such as Tashilhunpo, Shalu Monastery, Ramoche Temple and others. I have even started the Tibetology article with some great commons photos. Check out all my work. I hope I am doing a valuable job for the wiki community. James Janderson 12:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Mediation time on Kosovo

I don't think we're getting anywhere with the Kosovo introduction, particularly since Ferick has openly rejected WP:NPOV and is now refusing to discuss sources. Accordingly, I've submitted a request for mediation. Please indicate on that page whether you consent to having the matter mediated. -- ChrisO 09:38, 8 July 2006 (UTC)