User talk:Sally Season

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Mollskman (talk | contribs) at 20:41, 24 October 2012 (→‎WP:ANI again). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome

Hello, Sally Season, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the New contributors' help page, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type {{helpme}} and your question on this page, and someone will show up shortly to answer. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

We hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! -- The Red Pen of Doom 21:38, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

General Sanctions on Special Operations OPSEC Education Fund

I don't think there is any problem with my edits. I just added more information from the news story. Sally Thank you for your contributions to the encyclopedia! In case you are not already aware, an article to which you have recently contributed, Special Operations OPSEC Education Fund, is on article probation. A detailed description of the terms of article probation may be found at Wikipedia:General_sanctions/2012_Presidential_Campaign/Log. Also note that the terms of some article probations extend to related articles and their associated talk pages.

The above is a templated message. Please accept it as a routine friendly notice, not as a claim that there is any problem with your edits. Thank you. Binksternet (talk) 18:46, 25 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]


Sockpuppetry case

Your name has been mentioned in connection with a sockpuppetry case. Please refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/StillStanding-247 for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with the guide to responding to cases before editing the evidence page. AdventurousSquirrel (talk) 02:42, 7 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I saw your mention of my name. You are the squirrel who gives lectures on civility and good faith right? True colors.

OPSEC

Please stop removing the fact that the Obama Campaign are the ones claiming it is a Republican group. The sources all clearly cite the Obama campaign as making the claim, with one instance of a pro-Obama PAC echoing those claims. See this quote from the Reuters article:


The source is clearly noting this response from the campaign as addressing the group. It is hard to take that as anything other than accusing OPSEC of being a Republican effort and they are the only ones noted as making this claim, save for the pro-Obama VetPAC. Again, please stop removing this important fact supported by the various cited sources.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 03:50, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why do you say "it is hard to take that as anything other" when just the opposite is true? Your "take that as" words scare me. Are you saying we should guess what the source means, since they didn't explicitly say what you say they did? In the quote above, the only accusation made by the O campaign is that Opsec is resorting to swift boat tactics. The campaign doesn't accuse the group of being Republican, they only refer to the group as Republican. The O campaign never said "smear", that was from the reporting source. You say the Obama campaign is doing the accusing, then you contradict yourself in the next paragraph by admitting others are also accusing. Please stop adding false information.

While we are on this subject, your edit also removed information not addressed here, so add that to the reasons why I will undo your edit.Sally Season (talk) 20:16, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just read this from a source already in the article:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-08-17/news/sns-rt-us-usa-campaign-leaksbre87g0z3-20120817_1_republican-party-media-campaign-opsec

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A group of former U.S. spies and commandos that launched a media campaign this week criticizing President Barack Obama's national security record has extensive links to the Republican Party, public records indicate.

Records filed with federal and state authorities, and material posted on the Internet, show that key players in the campaign by the Special Operations OPSEC Education Fund include individuals with current or former affiliations with national and local Republican Party organizations. These include the group's treasurer, lawyer and TV producers.

To use your words, The source is clearly noting this group is run by Republicans. It is hard to take that as anything other than accusing OPSEC of being a Republican effort. That is another news source describing it as a Republic effort, not just VetPAC and the O campaign. Do you see yet why it is clearer to simply say the group has been described this way?Sally Season (talk) 20:33, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

User page

Do you mind explaining why you have taken to listing editors on your user page?--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 04:39, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's prefaced "notes." They're probably trying to keep record of users they've interacted with. Maybe they don't know about the WP:WATCHLIST? Sædontalk 06:03, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Sædon, that is a helpful link. I remembered seeing "Watchlist" somewhere before, but it has since become a little star at the top of my article screens so I didn't recognize it. I am using my page as a temporary notepad. Is that okay?Sally Season (talk) 23:34, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please explain what this list of editors is supposed to represent.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 00:21, 13 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Let's trade. I'll answer your question if you answer mine.Sally Season (talk) 21:01, 13 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What question is that?--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 04:05, 14 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The one in the previous section, where you insist the O campaign is saying something, when sources show that the O campaign is just one of many sources saying it. I asked if that was clear o you now.Sally Season (talk) 01:18, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, you really need to start explaining what this list of names is about and not set conditions for providing such an explanation.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 03:52, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Attack pages are against the rules. By setting it up this way, he walks a tightrope between the rules. You could take this to WP:ANI, but your better bet is probably to keep an eye on the guy's interactions with those users. If it becomes clear that it's an "enemies list", then it's toast. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:26, 19 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your best bet is to ignore it, it isn't your business anyway. I'm just using the page as a notepad since I don't always access wiki from the same local system, so keeping notes locally isn't practical for me. She is right that you can take this to WPANI, but then you run the risk of that backfiring like last time. I am following [User page] rules, and I am not attacking anybody. Why do you guys always phrase things as if you are on a battlefield?Sally Season (talk) 00:34, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's not just your business, as you do not "own" your user page, and it is subject to rules. My advice to TDA would be not to flatly ignore it, but to put it on the back burner... for now. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:45, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't put words in my mouth. I did not say I "own" the page and I did not say anything about it not being subject to rules. Now I will repeat, so to be clear, that what I write there are notes to myself, and are not your business. Either of you. Your suggestion to put it on any burner, front or back, smacks of assuming bad faith. If you want to play those games, do it out of my sight, please.Sally Season (talk) 21:39, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Notes about other editors on a public page are the business of the people you are naming. Could you please explain the meaning of these notes?--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 22:35, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I sure could. Could you please answer my above, repeated, question? By the by, I am referencing wp:User pages policy. Can you direct me to the policy you are referencing on notes about other editors on a public page? Thank you in advanceSally Season (talk) 22:44, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:POLEMIC "material that can be viewed as attacking other editors" is not permitted. Unless you can give a satisfactory explanation as to what these notes about other editors represent, one that complies with the above standard, the list should be removed.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 23:01, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That is the same page. So unless you can show me an attack on an editor there, you should probably drop this. Or better, we can head back over to that admin page again, that works for me too.Sally Season (talk) 23:18, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

From the guidelines: If the community lets you know that they would rather you delete some content from your user space, you should consider doing so—such content is only permitted with the consent of the community. As a member of this community I ask you to remove the notes on your userpage. Naming other users on your user page for no obvious reason - and unwilling to give any reason at all when asked - may make the named users and the community in general uncomfortable and create a bad atmosphere on Wikipedia . It thus undermines the purpose of this project rather than advance it. Iselilja (talk) 23:42, 23 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The user is walking a tightrope. I will raise the question at WP:ANI and maybe we can get a ruling one way or another. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:05, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The complainants here (i.e. the ones on the list) need to provide some diffs that suggest it's an "enemies list" rather than, for example, a list of users Sally Season holds in high esteem. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 02:18, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The high esteem theory seems unlikely. The user's contribution history includes edit summaries of reverts of Collect and Adventurous Squirrel and The Devil's Advocate earlier this month, which seems a bit more than coincidental.Anythingyouwant (talk) 04:21, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
An admin has now cleared the page, and intends to block the user if he restores it. So, hopefully, that's the end of this. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 04:26, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ANI discussion

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 21:16, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I read it. What am I required to do?Sally Season (talk) 23:20, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing.--Malerooster (talk) 01:34, 14 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

October 2012

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Special Operations OPSEC Education Fund. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

  1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
  2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Drmies (talk) 00:49, 11 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Binders full of women

Thank you for restoring my content. I could have done it, but it would have looked like a one woman edit war here. With multiple voices,it will be harder for those POV people to bury that there is a real reason why the remark became controversial and a meme. Perhaps we should even explain that there is substance revealed in the remark, rather than it being superficial controversy (the guy who both proposed the deletion of the article and removed the content glosses it over as "silly season.") TruthtellernoBS (talk) 02:16, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ANI again

Hello, there is a discussion about your userpage going on. Please comment over there on the purpose of that page. De728631 (talk) 08:45, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You have the right to remain silent. They have the privilege of conducting a lynch mob. That's sort of the way WP works. That said, if you're running an enemies list on your page, don't do that. And if you'd like to put aside the campaign 2012 idiocy and to start working on serious biography or history in the future and have any questions about WP footnoting techniques, policies, etc., feel free to drop me a line either on my talk page or by email at MutantPop@aol.com. POV warring is idiotic and ends badly always; there is plenty of serious work to do at Wikipedia though. Best regards, —Tim //// Carrite (talk) 16:14, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Sally, I'm on that list, and I really don't care that much why, and whether it stays or goes, but I think you have to understand that others care more and they are wondering. I wouldn't go so far as to call that a lynch mob, but a few careful words can avoid much acrimony later on. Happy editing, Drmies (talk) 19:36, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
One editor, who isn't even named in the list, kept insisting that Sally Season said that they "owned" the talk page, even after having been told by Sally Season that they have never had said that and also didn't feel that they did. Why this is being repeated again in an ANI without anyone saying anything about it is beyond me and does speak of a "lynch mob" mentality where apparently nothing that Sally Season says will even be acknowledged for it has already been decided that Sally Season's blood shall flow. I stumbled upon this whole issue in ANI and I can only say that the level of childishness and the use of thug tactics have shocked me. I am very disappointed that this is allowed to happen. - 20:00, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
Please read and understand WP:UP#POLEMIC. At this point, Sally Season is just trolling and should be blocked. Viriditas (talk) 20:33, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Can I ask why I am on the list? I didn't see any notes after my name. --Mollskman (talk) 20:41, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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