Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2020 May 28

28 May 2020

Category:Moses Sumney songs

Category:Moses Sumney songs (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

This category was deleted because it was populated solely with redirects, per the deletion discussion. With the creation of Virile (song) (no longer a redirect), this no longer applies. Also per WP:SMALLCAT: "subcategories of Category:Works by creator may be created even if they include only one page." And per the CSD cited (WP:G4) when the category was deleted again: "It excludes pages to which the reason for the deletion no longer applies." I grieve in stereo (talk) 16:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Susan Kuhnhausen

Susan Kuhnhausen (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

New sources have come to light, most importantly that Kuhnhausen's attempted murder was the main subject in episodes of two different, notable true-crime TV shows, in an episode of a notable podcast, and in at least two notable magazines (see below).

I would set a new article up as an article about the EVENT, AND NOT about the person (because the event is what is notable); part of the problem with the old article was that it was too biographical and not about the event. The new page I would create would not be based on the old page; I would create the page from scratch using the sources below. Another problem with the old article is that it was created primarily from news sources therefore ran afoul of WP:NOTNEWSPAPER; the new sources below fix this issue.

I think this can now pass WP:NCRIME, and that it could even pass WP:GNG based on the coverage in multiple notable TV shows, magazines, and podcasts. Here are the best sources:

• I Survived... - featured in an episode of I Survived..., a TV show produced by Lifetime; reruns are shown on TV
• KVAL news - mentions that the event was featured in an episode of Nothing Personal (TV series); I can't find more sources to corroborate this, but there is a clip of the show on the news site and an air date, so the episode of the show must exist
• My Favorite Murder - featured in an episode of My Favorite Murder, a popular true crime podcast
• Willamette Week - in-depth coverage of the event years later in Willamette Week
• Scrubs Magazine - coverage years later in Scrubs Magazine
• Stitcher - "Today in True Crime" podcast covers this event
• Hospital Watchdog - covers the event from the perspective of an ER nurse

Sources for facts; these don't help with notability but help with verifiability
*NBC News - just a news piece; doesn't help with notability but it does with reliably sourcing facts Fox News - another news piece; doesn't help with notability but it does with reliably sourcing facts Pamplin Media - Susan Kuhnhausen receives an award for heroism

I want to stress that a new article would be about the EVENT, not a biography, and would be created at "Attempted Murder of Susan Kuhnhausen". Thank you for any comments. Ikjbagl (talk) 01:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

• Question. @Ikjbagl: Why do you need the deletion of the old article reviewed instead of just starting fresh at Draft:Attempted murder of Susan Kuhnhausen? —C.Fred (talk) 01:20, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Possible Answer to User:C.Fred - See DRV reason number 3, new information. I am aware that it is the DRV way to bite new editors who believe reason 3, when the DRV regulars know that reason 3 should be ignored, and that new information requests should go through AFC instead. Maybe the documentation should be changed. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:45, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
  • Response @C.Fred: Robert McClenon hit the nail on the head; the WP:DRV page reason 3 is why I came here--I've learned a ton since this article was deleted, but I'm still learning now. This situation is complicated by the fact that I kind of screwed up the original AfD by moving the page in the middle of it (I was pretty new to Wikipedia at the time and people suggested framing it as an event, so I moved the page to "Attempted murder of Susan Kuhnhausen"). The page was subsequently deleted, but it did exist at one time at the place I am intending to create it now. If people think it's appropriate to just create the new article now, I would be happy to do so. Ikjbagl (talk) 04:47, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
    • @Ikjbagl: And that's why I said to create the draft article. The AfD result does not bar an article from ever being created on the subject. It does mean that if an article is recreated that is substantially the same as the article at the time of deletion, it may be speedy deleted (criterion G4). That's why I recommended creating a draft. It "buys you time" to beef up the sourcing, because draft pages wouldn't be subject to CSD G4 the same way pages in mainspace would. Once you think the article is in good shape, you can submit it—and if other editors agree, it will get moved to mainspace.
      That being said, if you wanted to use the article as it stood at the time of deletion as the starting point of the draft, that would require help from an admin to undelete it and move it to draft space. Technically, that kind of a request can be done at WP:Requests for undeletion, but since we're here and talking about it, I doubt anybody will object if I (or another admin) restores the article history to draft space for you to work on. Is that what you'd like done? —C.Fred (talk) 14:47, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

• Well there's nothing stopping you from creating another article about it, but I don't think it's a good idea. The major problem here is WP:NOTNEWS: lots of events which get substantial news coverage (even events passing the GNG) are not suitable for inclusion here because we are an encyclopedia and not a news service. This event got coverage because of its sensationalist nature, rather than because it has any further significance. If the article is about the event then the relevant standard is WP:EVENT, which says Routine kinds of news events (including most crimes, accidents, deaths, celebrity or political news, "shock" news, stories lacking lasting value such as "water cooler stories," and viral phenomena) – whether or not tragic or widely reported at the time – are usually not notable unless something further gives them additional enduring significance. Does the event have any enduring significance? I don't think coverage in true crime podcasts or TV series shows this, because they have the same kind of standards as the media outlets who reported this at the time. Note the Willamette Week source was cited in the AfDed version. Hut 8.5 07:26, 28 May 2020 (UTC)