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This is the talk page for discussing Mass message senders and anything related to its purposes and tasks.

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Mass-mail subscription list shells

Below is a list of empty shells that are available for use in the mass message subscription list content model. To use one, go to the page, and move it to the title you want. These pages should typically only be moved to the User and Project namespaces. New shells can be created by administrators and template editors.

General Discussions

Split requests into new page

Hello, after reading and thinking about the comments by Reidgreg and isaacl. I think that there is an argument to be made for splitting requests onto a new page either a subpage or a completley new page (examples Wikipedia:Mass message senders/Requests or Wikipedia:Mass Message Requests). I created Wikipedia:Mass message senders/Requests as an example of what the page could be. I took the core components of Wikipedia:Mass message senders, rewrote them specifically with the idea that the reader would be someone requesting MMS, and then adding the MMS request section at the bottom. It is currently just a first attempt and I realise that I completley missed the Guidance for use section which should proably be included. The way I see it is: You don't see a section on "Becoming an administrator" when you try to edit the main page, why should you see "Requesting rights" and "General discussion" of MMS when trying to request a new message to be sent? It can just overload and act as a barrier for a user with no good reason that I can see as to why this is the case. With this change it can also mean that the page Wikipedia:Mass message senders can be rewritten with a focus on the user right with help for using the tool and what it is rather than a focus on making requests.

Overall just looking for thoughts on this and the new page I created and the idea in general, not looking to reshuffle everything at this very moment. Terasail ^[✉️] 01:50, 8 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for just seeing this comment now; another side effect of having discussion and requests on the same page is that it's easy for me to overlook discussion. I agree that it makes sense to have a separate page for those who want to make mass message requests, on which the requests can be made and then archived by a bot, separate from discussion about mass messaging in general. Those discussions can continue to be held on this talk page. isaacl (talk) 23:11, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Letting folks with MMS perm also create MMS lists

They currently can't do this because they don't have the editcontentmodel permission / access to Special:ChangeContentModel. Is there any interest in getting this added to the MMS toolkit? Seems pretty uncontroversial but wanted to double check first. If we get enough support here, next step would probably be village pump, then Phabricator. Thanks. –Novem Linguae (talk) 19:51, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support as I find it very annoying having to move a shell each time I want to create a mailing list for NPP and the such. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 19:54, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support I believe it can make our work easier. Best, —Nnadigoodluck███ 20:22, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 21:51, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support Honestly, I thought that was already included in that right. Deauthorized. ^(talk) 22:08, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If I understand correctly, users with the editcontentmodel permission can change the content model of a page to Javascript. Because this is a security concern, I think the bar would be raised for gaining mass messaging privileges if it included editcontentmodel. Thus I don't feel it should be added. isaacl (talk) 22:11, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why is being able to change the content model of a page to JavaScript a security concern? - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 22:27, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Javascript code runs in the user's browser and thus in the context of the user in its interactions with Wikipedia (that is, it can do anything the user can do). It can also be used to create UI elements that might confuse the user into entering privileged information. Thus managing which Javascript files are accessible to users is important for security. Being able to change the content model means that pages that aren't normally expected to be Javascript files (such as ones not ending in .js) could have their content model changed so they can execute as Javascript. A clever malicious user could find a way to exploit this. isaacl (talk) 22:39, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but it does have to be added to a user's skin/common.js or skin/common.css Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 06:03, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate Terasail posting the links to the previous discussions (one of which I participated in), and in those conversations, others have expressed a similar viewpoint to yours about the degree of risk. It does require someone being fooled into loading the Javascript (thus the need for cleverness), whether it's through a malicious URL, being given incorrect instructions, taking advantage of common typos, or something else. Of course this can already be done today with Javascript code on pages ending in .js. Nonetheless I am still wary of expanding the attack surface in an unexpected manner that might elude any current precautions taken by users. I agree with the views expressed in those earlier discussions that it would be better to implement a solution that just allowed mass message senders to create mailing lists. isaacl (talk) 06:31, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Massmessage is still a pretty high trust permission, and it's not given out to every person who wants it. If a user wanted to cause damage, they could get their common.js into another user's common.js. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 06:34, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mass message senders don't need the ability to set other content types, so in my view the current workaround is sufficient, versus moving to a different workaround. Although I think there is more caution now in granting the mass messaging privilege, back around its start I remember it being given to someone who just said they'd like to help out with sending mass messages. Delivering mass messages inappropriately can be disruptive to users, but isn't a security risk, and so I don't think mass message senders are screened with potential security issues in mind. isaacl (talk) 07:06, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Being able to change a page to javascript doesn't do anything to a user's client unless they add it to skin or common js, all users can put malicious code in their own js files and trick users into adding them into their common and skin js. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 10:52, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This was previously discussed a few years ago, that it should be added as part of the right and this was rejected. As TEs and Admins both have more substantial guidelines for granting and criteria for revocation it seems best to keep a right which can change any wikitext page into css (or whatever) more limited especially considering there is a maintained list of available MMS lists on this page already. It should probably be more widley discussed on VPR to see if there are any further arguments to be made. Terasail ^[✉️] 23:28, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I also found Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 134#restrict editcontentmodel permission which mentions phab:T145344 which is highly concerning. I have not yet read through the task or discussions properly so I could quite easily change my position on this. Terasail ^[✉️] 23:41, 22 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Terasail; the security issues presented above are overblown IMO, but this violates the single-responsibility principle and the principle of least privilege and will doom us to an eventual repeat of Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)/Archive 86#Restoring to Account Creators the Ability to Edit Editnotices * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 14:18, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Let massmessage perm use Special:CreateMassMessageList

phab:T92795, which would involve letting anyone with the massmessage right use Special:CreateMassMessageList, looks like a simple and good solution. It solves the problem without needing to assign anyone change content model permissions. Thoughts on that approach? –Novem Linguae (talk) 07:32, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support as this alleviates the above concerns while still allowing massmessage senders to create lists. - 🔥𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 13:22, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Weak oppose The current system is working just fine; this makes the permission model more complicated for little apparent benefit. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 14:18, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support though the concerns raised above are mostly invalid as any user can convince someone to add malicious javascript to their common.js or skin.js. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 15:36, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

MassMessage Delivery Requests

(add request • view requests)

Request for mass message delivery: July 2023

Would someone please deliver the WikiProject Scouting Newsletter: July 2023

Here are the details

Mailing list: Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Members/delivery
Subject of mass mailing: WikiProject Scouting Newsletter: July 2023
Content of mass mailing: {{subst:Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Newsletters/July 2023}}
Requested delivery date: 2023-07-01

Thanks for your assistance! --evrik ^(talk) 19:10, 30 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Doing... Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 06:45, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On hold @Evrik, is it intentional that the image isn't shown? Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 06:48, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Zippybonzo: It was showing yesterday. I'm not sure what is wrong. --evrik ^(talk) 15:51, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm happy to send it now if you wish. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 16:00, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, go ahead. If you see a problem with the code, please fix it. --evrik ^(talk) 16:02, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll send it as it looks alright otherwise. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 16:30, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sent, went out fine except for the image, but it might be a client issue. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 16:43, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request for mass message delivery: 07 July 2023

Would someone please deliver the WikiProject Fungi RfC: July 2023

Here are the details

Mailing list: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fungi#RfC about the mushroom characteristics in {{Mycomorphbox}}

Subject of mass mailing: RfC about the mushroom characteristics category in {{Mycomorphbox}}

Content of mass mailing:

WikiProject Fungi has an RFC for possible consensus. A discussion is taking place. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Vitaium (talk) 01:34, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested delivery date: 2023-07-07

Thank you for your assistance! Vitaium (talk) 01:34, 7 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Vitaium,

On hold can you make the request not malformed, as I can’t send it like this, please create a proper MassMessage list, and make a new page for the message content. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 08:47, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done — no response within approx 2 days, if you want it sending, please make another request. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 04:52, 14 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request for mass message delivery: July 15, 2023

Would someone please deliver → Request for applications for position of Wikipedian-at-Large, Aotearoa New Zealand ←

Here are the details

Mailing list: Members of the categories "New Zealand Wikipedians" and "WikiProject New Zealand members'
Subject of mass mailing: → Request for applications for position of Wikipedian-at-Large, Aotearoa New Zealand ←
Content of mass mailing: {{subst:[[Kia ora! The [Aotearoa New Zealand User Group] invites you to read about their request for applications for a [[1]]]]}}
Requested delivery date: → Monday 17 July 2023 ←

Thanks for your assistance! MurielMary (talk) 10:36, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On hold @MurielMary, the content of the mailing won't work, can you fix it? Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 11:08, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'm not sure how to format the content. It's not a newsletter - we'd like to post a statement drawing editors' attention to a project that's described on our meta page here: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Aotearoa_New_Zealand#Wikipedian-at-Large_(WPAL)_project Can you pls advise how to format the mail content or point me towards a model/similar mailing to copy? TIA. MurielMary (talk) 11:38, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@MurielMary, if you write and format the message on a page, then I can add that as the page to send. If you ping me when you've done that, I'll be happy to send it on Monday. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 11:42, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Zippybonzo Thank you! Is this suitably formatted? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_New_Zealand/Announcement/July_2023

MurielMary (talk) 12:04, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, that will be fine, I’ll send it on Monday. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 12:12, 15 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Zippybonzo: Has this been forgotten about? * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:06, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Errr, yes, let me quickly send that. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 06:31, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@MurielMary, I am not entirely sure sending an unsolicited MassMessage to all New Zealand wikipedians is a good idea, though I think sending it to WPNZ is fine, which I have just sent, though I would be happy to send it if consensus found it was acceptable to send an unsolicited message to 500 users. Zippybonzo | Talk (he|him) 06:37, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that! Yes, good point about the unsolicited mailout. We (the Aotearoa NZ User Group) will ponder that one! MurielMary (talk) 10:35, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request for mass message delivery: July 31, 2023

Would someone please deliver Wikimedia US Mountain West online meeting 08/08/2023

Here are the details

Mailing list: Wikipedia:Meetup/US Mountain West/Invitation list
Subject of mass mailing: Wikimedia US Mountain West online meeting 08/08/2023
Content of mass mailing: {{subst:User:Buaidh/MW notice}}
Requested delivery date: ASAP

Thank you for your assistance! Buaidh talk e-mail 23:36, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Doing... —Nnadigoodluck███ 00:12, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sent Checked 3 random pages. Appears to have sent correctly. Best, —Nnadigoodluck███ 00:21, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request for mass message delivery: August 12, 2023

Would someone please deliver WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter Issue 49

Here are the details

Mailing list: Wikipedia:WikiProject Eurovision/Members/Spamlist
Subject of mass mailing: WikiProject Eurovision Newsletter Issue 49
Content of mass mailing: {{subst:Wikipedia:WikiProject Eurovision/News/Issue 49/Delivery}}
Requested delivery date: ASAP

Thanks for your assistance! Ktkvtsh (talk) 02:59, 13 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done Sorry for the delay in getting to this! * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 23:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request for mass message delivery: August 31, 2023

Would someone please deliver WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 21

Here are the details

Mailing list: Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life/Newsletter#Subscribers
Subject of mass mailing: WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 21
Content of mass mailing: {{subst:Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life/Newsletter/021}}
Requested delivery date: 1 September UTC

Thanks for your assistance! AryKun (talk) 13:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

On hold for ~4 hours. Terasail ^[✉️] 20:23, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Doing... Terasail ^[✉️] 23:13, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sent ~50 mins early but I forgot that I am not in UTC... Close enough. I checked 5 pages, it appears to have sent correctly. Terasail ^[✉️] 23:20, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request for mass message delivery: September 21, 2023

Would someone please deliver → WikiProject Women in Green October 2023 event notification ←

Here are the details

Mailing list: Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Green/Mail-list
Subject of mass mailing: Women in Green GA Editathon October 2023 - Around the World in 31 Days
Content of mass mailing: {{subst:Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Green/Mail-list#Contents for October 2023 GA drive notification}}
Requested delivery date: As soon as possible

Thanks for your assistance! :-) Alanna the Brave (talk) 21:46, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Working (t · c) buidhe 00:51, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done Alanna the Brave (t · c) buidhe 00:53, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request for mass message delivery: September 27, 2023

Would someone please deliver the WikiProject Worcestershire Newsletter

Here are the details

Mailing list: Wikipedia:WikiProject Worcestershire/Newsletter list
Subject of mass mailing: WikiProject Worcestershire Newsletter - September 2023
Content of mass mailing: {{subst:Wikipedia:WikiProject Worcestershire/Newsletter/2023-09}}
Requested delivery date: A.S.A.P.

Thanks for your assistance! Ollieisanerd (talk • contribs) 18:09, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Working (t · c) buidhe 18:15, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done (t · c) buidhe 18:18, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Request for mass message delivery: October 1, 2023

Would someone please deliver WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 22

Here are the details

Mailing list: Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life/Newsletter#Subscribers
Subject of mass mailing: WikiProject Tree of Life Newsletter Issue 22
Content of mass mailing: {{subst:Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life/Newsletter/022}}
Requested delivery date: 1 October UTC

Thanks for your assistance! AryKun (talk) 15:35, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Doing... —Nnadigoodluck███ 16:04, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sent Checked 3 random pages. Appears to have sent correctly. Best, —Nnadigoodluck███ 16:25, 1 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 180: / Line 180: @@
 Thanks for your assistance! [[User:AryKun|AryKun]] ([[User talk:AryKun|talk]]) 15:35, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * {{Doing}} —[[User:Nnadigoodluck|<b style="color:#008751;">Nnadigoodluck</b>]][[User talk:Nnadigoodluck|<span style="color:#008751;font-size:80%">█</span><span style="color:#FFFFFF;font-size:80%">█</span><span style="color:#008751;font-size:80%">█</span>]] 16:04, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
+*: {{sent}} Checked 3 random pages. Appears to have sent correctly. Best, —[[User:Nnadigoodluck|<b style="color:#008751;">Nnadigoodluck</b>]][[User talk:Nnadigoodluck|<span style="color:#008751;font-size:80%">█</span><span style="color:#FFFFFF;font-size:80%">█</span><span style="color:#008751;font-size:80%">█</span>]] 16:25, 1 October 2023 (UTC)