Category talk:J. R. R. Tolkien

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To be added later. Carcharoth 13:27, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Categorisation issues for Tolkien-related articles

Some of the issues to consider:

1. What criteria should be distinguished using categories, and what should be distinguished using lists? An example of a currently used category criteria is dividing up characters by race. Another common criteria is to divide things up by the book they appear in, though this is not always useful. A common example of a criteria often best handled using a list is dividing up by time periods, such as First/Second/Third Age. If categories are ever created along the lines of time periods, it is best if the articles have a historical perspective.
2. Another common division that might be handled using categories is the division between articles about real-world Tolkien-related subjects on the one hand (biographical, bibliographical, family, adaptations, publishers, work, influenced by, influence on) and articles about his fiction on the other hand (mostly covered by the Middle-earth category at the moment). This would be one of the top-level divisions, and what is needed here is to decide: (a) the best names for these top-level categories; and (b) What parent categories to put these top-level categories in.
3. A common criteria is for an article to not appear in both a parent category and its daughter category. An exception to this rule is often made when it would be helpful for an article to appear in a top-level category to help people wanting to see (for exmaple) all Elves at once. It tends to be a matter of judgement how best to handle this sort of thing.
4. The blurb at the top of category is variously used to explain the category either to readers or to editors. I haven't yet found a categorisation guideline that states which is best. I feel that while a categorisation structure is being worked out (especially for a limited area like this), it is best to have the blurbs explaining to editors where they should be placing articles. Once the categorisation structure has settled down, then the blurb can be rewritten as a guide to readers using the category system to browse through the Tolkien articles.
5. Remember that categorisation schemes are not hierarchial, and several different "trees" can intermingle and overlap. A good way to achieve this is to put categories into at least two different higher categories, thus giving the browser several different routes to reach the same destination. As an example, the category Middle-earth books is found both in the category Middle-earth, and in the category Texts by J.R.R. Tolkien (which in itself touches a wide range of other categories). Middle-earth adaptations is a good example of a category that is in the Middle-earth category, but not in the adaptations category. In fact, the subcategories of Middle-earth adaptations provide routes to higher level categories (Middle-earth films is also in fantasy films; Middle-earth games is also in games; the actors are also under an actors category), but one of the subcategories (Middle-earth music) has not been assigned to a higher level category. It should go in some sort of Music category, though it is best to check what categorisation scheme is used in other areas before changing too much.
6. It is also best to avoid putting too many category tags on an individual article. If you want to put a tag on an article, consider whether there is a similar category already marked, and if so, whether you can fine-tune the categorisation by putting one of the categories in another category (thus providing another route to reach the article).

Does this sound reasonable as guidelines for categorising Tolkien-related articles, and as a starting proposal for what work is needed in this area? Carcharoth 14:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I numbered your entries above to help make it clearer which I was responding to;

1. I think categories should be determined by number of articles that would go into them. There is a List of Hobbits (incomplete), but since there are also pages for various individual notable Hobbits it makes sense to have a Category:Middle-earth Hobbits as well. Currently there are stubs for each of the Ents which could probably be better combined into a list, possibly within the Ent article, (except for Treebeard) and then require no Category:Ents since there would only be two or three articles.
2. I think the current 'texts' and 'fandom' categories cover 'real world' fairly well. There is an 'adaptations' category under Middle-earth, which I think makes sense because that's what there have been adaptations of. A Tolkien family category might make sense, but the few articles it would include currently fit alright under the main Tolkien category. An 'analysis' category might make sense for the various books about Tolkien.
3. The 'characters' and 'races' categories have a great deal of overlap and sometimes show up on the same pages. It might be worthwhile to combine these into somthing like 'Middle-earth inhabitants'.Other than that I think most of the 'parent/child' issues have been resolved.
4. Can't we have both editor and reader information? Theoretically the editor information will eventually become obsolete and be removable, but we might as well include information for users just reading the articles.

I don't have any comments on your last two items above. --CBDunkerson 15:32, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

6. If Cat:A is in Cat:B is in Cat:C, the members of Cat:A should be related to Cat:C. Thus Category: J. R. R. Tolkien should probably not be in Category:British Army officers even though the article is. Septentrionalis 00:45, 12 April 2006 (UTC)