Draft talk:Green Hills 1

Green Hills Draft

Hey There Bdicoccosix. I saw your question at the Teahouse [1] and thought I would assess your article and help point out some specifics here on your Talk Page.

References do not provide notability, per se. They mostly back claims within the article content. In other words, when you write: "Green Hills Farms, Inc. is an independent, family-owned grocery store in Nedrow, New York, that retails bakery, deli, grocery, meat, prepared foods, seafood, and other products" and source it with a link to the Chain Store Age (Vol. 81, Issue 12), this is merely to back the claim that you introduced in the article. It does nothing to contribute to notability for inclusion at WP. If that source was a feature in the NY Times about Green Hills, then yes, that may serve as a criteria fulfillment. That would be considered "In depth".

There is a possible claim for notability: "In 2001, Inc Magazine named Green Hills the "Best Little Grocery Store in America" which is linked to the same Inc. case study. If this were published in a more prestigious periodical or publication that presented an annual award, then perhaps this would suffice in meeting another notable criteria at WP. Currently, it does not.

This entry: "In 2021, the store received a $500,000 grant to make store improvements" is not specific enough for notability, since the grant was awarded to other "small businesses" and Green Hill was only mentioned "in passing". Likewise, "Green Hills Farms is one of only two grocery stores on the City of Syracuse's South Side." This is local news; not national or international. Furthermore, it is not notable for inclusion.

This store does not warrant an independent article on its own but instead should / could be mentioned in the article Nedrow, New York; but even looking there, it seems that there is no other location, place, site, business, etc that is notable enough to have a section for it to be added to. I have a feeling that this store is very special to you; but I cannot see any way of getting this accepted into WP and meeting its qualifications for an article. I am very sorry. Maineartists (talk) 01:21, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for taking the time to get back to me. The store itself is not really special to me; I have just been trying to update some local information on Wikipedia, and got fixated on this topic. I have been curious why some local landmarks like the Westcott Reservoir have their own page, but many local businesses do not. I do appreciate that Wikipedia tries to draw a firm boundary so that businesses cannot promote themselves on Wikipedia; rather, businesses only exist on Wikipedia if they are "notable." However, I actually really do think that Green Hills Farms is notable, but I will continue to research.

I do understand your points about the local news articles. However, I thought that these sources really demonstrated the notability of the store:

Clark, Ken (December 2005). "Pointing to loyalty: Green Hills' latest strategy brings kiosks and biometrics to the forefront". Chain Store Age. 81 (12): 136. Retrieved 2024-06-21.

Turcsik, Richard (June 2004). "At a Syracuse, N.Y. independent, their roots are showing: from a humble roadside farm stand, Green Hills has developed into one of the most admired grocers in America". Progressive Grocer. 83 (9): 46+. Retrieved 2024-06-21.

Again, thank you for your help. This is my first time attempting to create a page, and I appreciate the learning process! Bdicoccosix (talk) 01:46, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Bdicoccosix I understand the logic behind "why that and not this?" question. I ask it all the time here at WP. I think, though, you answered your own question when you wrote: "landmark" (location). Notability is considerably less when it comes to fulfilling criteria. Just think how many (small) businesses would have their own pages based on articles in their local or even statewide newspapers which in today's environment of delivering news focuses on the positive spin "feel-good" story: "from a humble roadside farm stand, Green Hills has developed into one of the most admired grocers in America". This is a very impressive statement by one writer for Gale Academic Onefile. However, if this is true; there should be far more reaching coverage across "America" to back this claim.

Rather than continually picking apart your article on what it lacks, try and model your article on those that are similar to what you want to achieve already here at WP. Take the article on NYC diner Shopsin's. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of eateries in NYC; so what makes this notable? News coverage, a documentary, articles in major magazines and newspapers, books about the diner, etc. Short article, but notable. Try and use this article as your template and fill in the blanks. If you can, then you should have no problem getting your article approved. If you cannot, then you will see what you are missing and why the article fails. Maineartists (talk) 02:13, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I appreciate this feedback very much! Bdicoccosix (talk) 02:42, 23 June 2024 (UTC)