Help talk:IPA/Romansh

ə ~ ɐ

The author of the article is wrong about calling [ə] and [ɐ] phonemes, as these are phonetic realizations of one phoneme. We need to select one symbol (I suggest ⟨ə⟩) to represent this phoneme and stick to it. — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 17:39, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Actually, this is apparently the realization of a number of phonemes in unstressed position. If we can determine some criteria of when it is one the other (as is the case with Russian), then I would say we list them separately and use both. Otherwise, [ə] is fine. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]} 18:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction. From what I see, there may be no criteria, and they may be in free variation. Anyway, we need a source for that. — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 18:59, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

The two are in free variation; both can be realizations of /a e/. This has been one of the big issues Romansh writers have argued about when standardizing Romansh, as some preferred to analyze the unstressed vowels as /a/ and others as /e/, which influenced their spelling preference. Romansh speakers tend to use [ɐ] as the unstressed version of /a/ and [ə] as unstressed /e/, but not always. Here are two sound samples of the same speaker pronouncing orthographic <a> as [ə] in one word and [ɐ] in another: vs. . "Ricarda, Liver (1999), Rätoromanisch – Eine Einführung in das Bündnerromanische" gives more information on that, but I don't have the book available right now. --Terfili (talk) 09:01, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

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