Talk:2008–09 Ukrainian Premier League

	Association football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the season article task force.

FC Kharkiv

FC Kharkiv especially for this season does not play in Kharkiv, but, rather, in Sumy. Nonetheless, on all of maps it shows otherwise. I see how strange can be while the club which plays under the name of one city, actually plays in another one, but that is the fact which for the unknown reason is being denied. Permanently or not FC Kharkiv, at least for the whole season, does play in Sumy. And I think it should be noted and shown. It is not like the team plays in the nearby cities or in the same oblast, but, rather, two oblasts away.

The team according to the official website of the club and the official website of the Ukrainian Premier League is called "FC Kharkiv". I don't see it as a problem if we add a notation in the standings that the club plays in Sumy. In fact I'll do it right now! Brudder Andrusha (talk) 18:53, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also I have modified the map to indicate "FC Kharkiv in Sumy". For the time being this is good enough. Lets wait to see how long this lasts. The way this team is playing is typical of any team that moves to Sumy. - Not Good! Brudder Andrusha (talk) 19:24, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would not include the Sumy move within the standings as the issue primarily deals with either the "Teams and stadia" section (where it is actually included) or with a "Team changes from last season" section.

Hence I would suggest to (1) rename the "Promotion and relegation" section to "Team changes from last season", (2) put the current list into text beyond that caption and (3) write a sentence about the Kharkiv-Sumy move after that. An alternative to that would be a re-alignment of the sections comparable to the order of most articles: Teams and venues - Promotion and relegation - Standings - Results - other stuff. Hockey-holic (talk) 20:33, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And what about Arsenal? It has no own stadium. First game it played on Dynamo and second - on Obolon. And nobody knows where it will play next home game. Maybe not in Kyiv,--Ahonc (Talk)

17:04, 10 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ahonc, do you know where the XAPKIB dublery play? Do they also travel to Sumy for their home games? Brudder Andrusha (talk) 11:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They play on the Enerhetyk Stadium in Komsomolske town.--Ahonc (Talk)

15:16, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Btw, Tavriya plays in Sevastopol, Metalurh D - in Dokuchayivsk. Dynamo - in Chapayevka town (I dont know where is it located), FC Lviv plays on Dobromyl's Knyazha-Arena, etc.--Ahonc (Talk)

15:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chapaivka? or Konche Zaspa

Chapaivka, is the first village outside the city limits of Kyiv as you travel south. It is the official location of Dynamo's base as we all know as Koncha Zaspa. I've been there several times to watch Dynamo-2 play. One time they did not let me in because the team was actually playing at VVLoban Stadion. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 16:34, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Konche-Zaspa is inside Kiev borders.--Ahonc (Talk)

17:22, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken that marsh-routka from Vydubychi Metro twice to see Dynamo-2 play. As you drive on the expressway there is a black and white sign Чапаївка and what looks like a selo. The freeway becomes a dual carriage road and about 250 meters there is a bus stop near a run down gas station. This is where the driver let me out and I walked to the main gate of Dynamo's Koncha Zaspa facility. As you enter the gate there are 3 or 4 playing fields to the left - all in excellent condition as you can imagine. The area where the players live and other training facility of the Ukrainian Olympic Team are all fenced off. Maybe Чапаївка is now part of Kyiv, officially. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 17:52, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's an excerpt of PFL protocol earlier this year

XIII. Слухали: інформацію Баглая В. З. про недостатню кількість представників органів правопорядку та порушення громадського порядку на стадіоні ФК «Динамо» смт. Чапаївка м. Київ 18.03.2008 р. під час матчу 20-го туру першості команд першої ліги ЦСКА – «ПФК Олександрія».

Brudder Andrusha (talk) 17:58, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

They don't know geography :) There is no смт Чапаївка in Ukraine. There are only some villages called Chapayevka (see uk:Чапаєвка, uk-wiki has articles about all Ukrainian villages and urban-type settlements). I say it as the member of Wikiproject Населені пункти України in Uk-Wikipedia :) --Ahonc (Talk)

18:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am not denying your knowledge of Населені пункти України but I'm only writing about my contact and familiarity with this so called place Чапаївка. Since you are in Kyiv one of these times take a trip to the Dynamo facility and snoop around. Be careful though! Maybe those guys don't know much about geography - but they might know a bit more about physical contact!!!! I know Kyiv fairly well. I've been travelling there yearly since 1991 and have an apartment there! Brudder Andrusha (talk) 18:21, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I am also live in Kiev last 5 years (because I'm a student of KPI).--Ahonc (Talk)

15:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Standings layout

Andrusha, is it possible to include the templates for European qualification in your script? The current version looks a little, let's say, blank. If you need help with the code for that, feel free to contact me... Hockey-holic (talk) 20:33, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hockey-holic, no team has qualified for Europe for next season. Entering such information is futurism, IMO and I have flags in my scripts to allow it when necessary. Yes, the table looks blank - Because the season has just started. No one is relegated and no one is yet going to Europe for the 2009-2010 season - YET. Theoretically these kind of standings were only implied on by our team of contributors. I prefer the style the our Persha Liha has but to make any waves while the contributions are going on. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 21:44, 9 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Brudder, is there some way to include what the qualification and relegation spots are in the article anyway? That information is absolutely essential to this article, but it is not present right now. And we already know what finishing in first, second, third, or fourth will qualify a Ukrainian team for. That informations needs to be in this article somewhere. Rougue1987 (talk) 00:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Probably the best way would be color coordination - with a note or a color schematic to indicate what the color signifies. AFAIC though, that information is only valid in the standings once the team actually qualifies. Also, previously there was a not for the entrant of the Ukrainian Cup into Europe - But that competition has nothing to do with this particular one. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 01:41, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is actually why the qualification/relegation spots were marked with the templates. By the way, there is also a possibility to mark teams as mathematically assured of a spot (see template documentation). Hence, as a compromise, I would suggest to put the qr templates back in and to add a note in the footer section that nothing is secured until there is an appropriate letter next to a team's name. Hockey-holic (talk) 09:56, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is a documented section now in the article which specifically indicates where teams will play in Europe depending on where they finish in the standings. Again, as of today which is a current reflection of the league - No one has qualified for the Europe for 2009-10 and the Standings correctly indicate this!!! Brudder Andrusha (talk) 11:35, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, I strongly oppose to this design. It made my browser broken! I revert it very difficultly as to look for the league table. IMO the old design is not compatible to my computer. Raymond Giggs 07:19, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, Brudder's opinion is absolutely nonsense as the problem has been solved by adding a qualified parameter. No qualification template would make readers do not know how to qualify for a championship. Raymond Giggs 07:32, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You did not solve anything. In fact you made it worse by displaying incorrect data. So typical of these fly by night admins. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 15:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

*silently points to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football#Season article guideline proposal and asks both contenders to remain calm since a) the season will be over tonight/on Sunday and b) major changes might happen to next year (especially a unification of layouts) anyway* --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 15:16, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Standings after 7 rounds

Why Metalist is fourth and Dnieper is fifth? Dnieper wins Metalist that's why it must be higher than Metalist.--Ahonc (Talk) 21:23, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ahonc, Has the Premier League changed the way they determine positioning within the standings table if points are equal? I haven't seen any actual documentive proof. I only have seen this on the official website of the FPL - [1] Стаття 13 #2

2. Місця команд визначаються за такими показниками, отриманими в усіх матчах:

а) більша кількість набраних очок;

б) більша кількість перемог;

в) краща різниця забитих і пропущених м’ячів;

г) більша кількість забитих м’ячів.

Brudder Andrusha (talk) 00:03, 14 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Captains

Why is Shovkovskyi written as captain of Dynamo? I don't remember when he plays las time. In last games Nesmachnyi or Mykhalyk were captains.--Anatoliy (Talk) 23:40, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree that is old. It should be Nesmachnyi.--Boguslav M 02:21, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A bit of a dilemma for Dynamo and Shovkovsky. Since the winter break Nesmachnyj was captain for Round 18/20 and Myxalyk was captain for Round 19. Its clear that Shovkovsky's playing time has been curtailed that his honorary captain position is invisible.

This season thus far in 20 games the captains role has been:

Nesmachnyj 8

Myxalyk 5

Shovkovskyj 4 (First 4 games)

Badr El Kaddouri 1

Tiberiu Ghioane 1

Ayila Yussuf 1

Brudder Andrusha (talk) 16:16, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For Round 21, Shovkovskyj got a rare start in goals and was captain. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 20:06, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Round 6 Arsenal Kyiv vs Dynamo Kyiv

Protocol has the game at Respublikanskyj - NickUA has already deleted this indicating that game was at VVLoban. So before we go into an edit war - Where was this game held? Brudder Andrusha (talk) 00:31, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you check out the video highlights from the link that Nick UA supplied it definitely looks like VVLoban to me.Brudder Andrusha (talk) 16:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Now FPL web-site corrected stadium in the match protocol.--Anatoliy (Talk) 11:10, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cup finals and Champions League

Should Shakhtar qualify for the Champions League via their league place, Vorskla will qualify for the Europa League regardless of their league position. However, they will not automatically enter the play-off round; if they finish fifth or lower, they will enter QR2.

Further, Vorskla will not qualify for the UEL only if the combination of a Shakhtar cup win, a Shakhtar third-place finish and a Vorskla final position of sixth or lower applies.

For similar cases with CL-bound finalists, see also the Spanish and Turkish leagues. --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 11:02, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Vorskla qualified to EL as Cup finalist. metalist and Shakhtar also qualified to Eurocups, but tournament and stage are unknown.--Anatoliy (Talk) 21:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Vorskla did not 100% qualify. The fact that they would be losing cup finalists doesn't mean anything if Shakhtar finishes 3rd. Then Vorskla would not get that cup spot, but it would be given to 5th placed team in the league. Of course, Vorskla also must not finish in top 5 in that case.

Keeping it simple: Shakhtar cup winners + Shakhtar 3rd + Vorskla 6th or lower = no Europe for Vorskla next year. SonjiCeli (talk) 22:02, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Shakhtar qualified to UCL or UEL from championship and if he wins Cup, the runners-up take his cup place in UEL. You can read alo article about Vorskla-Metalist match (if you know Russian) when stated «А „Ворсклу“ можно поздравить и с выходом в финал Кубка Украины и с выполненной задачей на сезон, а именно с попаданием в Лигу Европы!» --Anatoliy (Talk) 22:56, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The quoted article silently assumes that Shakhtar will surely qualify for the Champions League, which has not been mathematically assured (yet). Once this has happened, Vorskla are certain of playing in the Europa League, but as of now, they are not 100% in yet. The simplest way of killing any uncertainties would be a Shakhtar win and a Metalist draw or loss in Round 28, of course. ;-) --Soccer-holic^{I hear voices in my head...} 23:46, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that the Ukrainian Football Federation ruled earlier that if the Kubok winner has already qualified for European competitions (such as Shakhtar) then the runners-up will automatically qualify for European competition regardless of where they finish in the Premier League. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 19:59, 15 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Qualification and Relegation

Again there are folks who are adamant in using bullying tactics to push their cause whatever that is about incorrect information in the Qualification and Relegation column of the standings.

It is well documented in the section above that it is not known where Metalist and Vorskla will enter the Europa League yet (as of the end of Round 29). That will be known after the Ukrainian Cup has been played on May 31.

So why are these individuals continually modifying correct information in the standings? Are they so captivated by templates ignoring all reason for displaying factual, correct, non futuristic information because their browsers can't display the page correctly? Surely this can't be? Brudder Andrusha (talk) 11:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]