Talk:Aasgard Pass

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Name of "the Enchantments"[edit]

According to the general rules of English grammar, and MOS:THECAPS, articles such as "a" and "the" are not capitalized when they do not begin a sentence, even if part of a name. See the first example "the United Kingdom" in the Manual of Style. Illexsquid (talk) 16:44, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is not a correct interpretation of MOS:THECAPS. It explicitly highlights cases where "The" is part of the name, e.g., "The Hague" and "The Lord of the Rings", and directs us to use capitals in those cases. —hike395 (talk) 02:09, 6 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Those cases are rare, and not applicable here. First, The Lord of the Rings is the title of a work of art, not a name, and its rules are different. (I've always felt as if the whole title is taken as a standalone phrase, so its first letter is always capitalized.) "The Hague" is an attempt at translating a Dutch archaism, Den Haag. "Den" is not Modern Dutch for "The", so the English translation can even be regarded as rendering something other than the definite article. It's a strange case and should not be generalized. In a related case, the name of The Hague's country is the Netherlands, and although the article is always used in English, it is never capitalized, just like the example of the United Kingdom in MOS:THECAPS. The same is true for most cases where the definite article is used for a geographic feature. Arguably, the Manual of Style could be better when it comes to the names of natural features. I can see where your impulse is to include the article as part of the name, because it's always there, but that happens through operation of English grammar rather than a decision to include them as part of the name. Many (but not all) geographic features take the article when the name of the feature type is present, eg. the Cascade Range, the Mojave Desert, the Colorado River, the Grand Canyon. This behavior is even more common in the plural, eg. the Rocky Mountains, the Finger Lakes. It is more common when the feature type is dropped; this happens most often with mountain ranges, eg. the Rockies, the Cascades, the Selkirks. Although the Enchantments are usually taken to be the lakes in the area, rather than the mountains, it is this final behavior of the article that concerns us. Really, the only question is whether the article is part of the name. It seems that the writers of the Washington Trails Association page on the Enchantments think not, and the same is true of the U.S. Forest Service. The official American naming board, the U.S. Board on Geographic Names, does not include the article for the Lakes, the Peaks, or the Basin. Finally, none of the editors of the Wikipedia article on the Enchantments use the capitalized article either. You are, of course, free to use any name for your own use, but the consensus appears to be that the name does not include the article. I welcome a correction, should you find substantial evidence to the contrary.Illexsquid (talk) 20:44, 28 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]