Talk:Agni Yoga

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

no consensus, 6 July 2015, see discussion.
keep, 23 August 2009 (UTC), see discussion.

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Living Ethics was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 25 December 2015 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Agni Yoga. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

Untitled

Recently I've noticed that Agni Yoga page was replaced by Living Ethics page; I don't understand why.

I read both articles and while they discuss the same teaching, they have quite different perspectives. My view is that both perspectives are valid, can coexist, can help those interested in Agni Yoga get overview about its characteristics and current activities associated with it.

Tabibito8 (talk) 08:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is translated with the help «http://translate.google.ru»

The article Agni Yoga was written with violations, indeed:

This article was the personal opinion of Agni Yoga Society.

The article Living Ethics has a good scientific level, since there are many references to scientific work, including - of the scientists from the International Center of the Roerichs.

The International Center of the Roerichs holds annual international scientific conference. Scientists from all over the world participate in these conferences.

Unfortunately, Agni Yoga Society is not involved in international scientific conferences, is located in the side of science.

I suggest to leave the article Living Ethics.

Оригинальный текст

Статья Agni Yoga, действительно, была написана с нарушениями

Эта статья была личным мнением общества Агни Йоги.

Статья Living Ethics обладает хорошим научным уровнем, поскольку там много ссылок на научные работы, в том числе - работы ученых из Международного Центра Рерихов Международный Центр Рерихов проводит ежегодные международные научные конференции. Ученые из многих стран мира принимают участие в этих конференциях.

К сожалению, Общество Агни Йоги не участвует в международных научных конференциях, находится в стороне от науки.

Статью Living Ethics предлагаю оставить.

Uncle Y (talk) 18:45, 16 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It might well be that Agni Yoga page violates some of Wikipedia policies. My understanding is that outright removal of this page also violates Wikipedia Deletion policy [1]. Old Agni Yoga page certainly does not meet criteria for outright removal.

Instead, I suggest that it is best to leave both pages and improve both with objective of eventually using it as different sections of Agni Yoga Wikipedia entry.

Tabibito8 (talk) 13:41, 17 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See the Content forking. --Deodarvostok (talk) 06:25, 20 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sure I read Content forking. Correct me if wrong, you are saying that one of the reasons for redirection is that both articles talk about the same subject?

True, it is the same subject and but perspective and content is different. That is why I suggested discussion and eventual merging under Agni Yoga title. Redirecting without discussion is POV fork.

-- Tabibito8 (talk) 07:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, on it. Also because there is no difference between Agni Yoga ‎‎ and Living Ethics.

Also article Agni Yoga has not been removed. It broke rules of Wikipedia, therefore has been copied to use of authoritative sources. Therefore rule Wikipedia:Deletion policy here does not approach. --Deodarvostok (talk) 07:46, 20 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If memory serves, I am the one who first created this article several years ago. Someone from the American society later made extensive edits, and especially expanded the theological description. To the best of my knowledge, this new material seems to be factual, though one might question its length.

"Agni Yoga" and "Living Ethics" are the same thing, and ought to be the same article. I cannot agree that either is especially scientific, though followers may be interested in scientific subjects. At bottom, it is a spiritual teaching rooted in Blavatskean Theosophy, which recognizes material from the Roerichs as a new source of revelations from the Masters.

I would say that the theological sections ought to be compressed, while more information is needed giving concrete information about the history and scope of Agni Yoga activities around the world. An especially pressing lacuna is the lack of information about AY groups in Russia and Eastern Europe. (I am aware of a new monograph on this from the Gregorian Pontifical University Press, and am waiting for my library to receive it.)

In general, sources are a big problem. We have a lot of citations of AY texts, but only a few of secondary works (which I realize are scarce for this subject). I wish that an AY person who knows Russian could be persuaded to add sources in that language.Dawud (talk) 03:32, 20 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Primary source material

There's an excessive use of inappropriate primary source material in this article. I removed the entire teachings sections here as it's not in the right tone (it's too promotional) and it seems to go on without any context. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:42, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

+1 - David Gerard (talk) 11:09, 6 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Merge following AfD result

As someone who suggested that Living Ethics should be moved here rather than deleted, I feel obliged to assist with the process. However, I also don't think that there's any significant content in the existing article that's salvageable. My first suggestion would be to simply replace Living Ethics with a redirect (so that none of the content is moved here) - failing this, we could perhaps keep the "Russian Orthodox Church and the teachings of the Living Ethics" and "Of further interest" sections. The alternative is to do a full WP:FMERGE, but my conscience won't let me do that. Or we could send the AfD round again and get the article permanently deleted. Tevildo (talk) 18:38, 8 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Agni Yoga/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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As a student of the Agni Yoga teaching, I'm grateful to the writers of the current article, which has useful information on the Teaching. большое спасибо!

At the same time, there are two major problems with the content. First, although the article is about Agni Yoga, it contains a great deal of extraneous information which sheds little light on the main topic (even if it may have intrinsic value). Much of this is unsourced and seems even speculative. Moreover, we find little verification and numerous factual errors. One gets a general impression that the authors' readings of Agni Yoga have concentrated on the early books.

I propose that the article focus on the Agni Yoga teaching and leave accounts of the Roerich's activities to the articles about their lives. For the time being I have replaced the initial paragraph so that it is more accurate and less discursive. Again, like many students I'm grateful that an article like this exists.

Asiaj (talk) 02:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 02:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 01:44, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Living Ethics

Living Ethics was closed at a afd six months ago as merge (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Living Ethics). The discussion did not say what should be merged. The article is pretty much an essay and I am not seeing any reasonable way to merge that content here. Here is the old version in case anyone can think of a better way to do this. AIRcorn (talk) 08:50, 9 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:12, 9 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]