Talk:Ammonium carbonate

Disambiguation needed

There seems to be a problem in defining what ammonium carbonate really is. If you go out on the web looking for ammonium carbonate you get all sorts of results. Some refer to it as a specific chemical, some say that it is a mixture of chemicals. Those that refer to it as a mixture do not even agree as to the constituents or the proportions. What is sort of serious about this situation is that on most of the sites I have read there is no indication that there are multiple definitions of ammonium carbonate. It is very possible to be looking for one and find a web site that has information on the other and I would never know it. I do not have the chemical expertise to sort all this out but I have found out a few things.

I have found two CAS numbers for ammonium carbonate. There may be more than two but the ones that I found are 10361-29-2 and 506-87-6. The first appears to refer to what this article refers to as "ammonium sesquicarbonate" which is a mixture of chemicals. The second seems to correspond to what in the article is called "normal ammonium carbonate", (NH₄)₂CO₃. I have no idea what is going on here. Can one name refer to two chemicals? Are the the same somehow?

I am hoping some expert can help out here.

Bills0bills0 03:40, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm no expert, but the ammonium cation NH₄ has a charge of 1+, and the carbonate anion CO₃ has a charge of 2-. So to have a neutral substance, you gotta have two cations per anion, thus (NH₄)₂CO₃. Neither of those ions is polyvalent, so I think it's a pretty well-defined substance. But then it gets interesting. It turns out that ammonium carbonate will slowly "decay" into ammonium bicarbonate NH₄HCO₃, releasing ammonia gas NH₃, when exposed to air; so, even if you start with pure ammonium carbonate, you may end up with a mixture of ammonium carbonate and ammonium bicarbonate after a while. I think "ammonium sesquicarbonate" is a name for this mixture, "sesqui" meaning "one and a half", based on the erroneous idea that the bicarbonate anion was somehow "twice" the carbonate anion. I think the "decay" process is what gives it the strong smell that it has. Also, I think that like similar salts, it has a strong affinity for water, so you'll generally find it in a hydrated form. Complicating things further, ammonium carbamate NH₂COONH₄ is also formed during the manufacturing process. Kragen Javier Sitaker (talk) 04:43, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Leavening agent

similar to the ammonium bicarbonate article, a more detailed history of ammonium carbonate's role as a leavener would be interesting and relevant. The term baking ammonia seems to be applied to both compounds, but specific details about the history of either compound are hard to come by. Buddy431 (talk) 22:44, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Tautology: "particularly those from northern Europe and Scandinavia" Scandinavia is (part of) northern Europe! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.227.15.253 (talk) 09:25, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Revision needed

Although it may be interesting for experimental purposes the manufacturing process described seems historic. Also, I have learnt that there is no true ammonium carbonate but that ammonium carbamate would form. Later I think I have seen both compounds listed as separate products from a major German chemical company. What's the relation between the different compounds. Also I think a decomposition temperature is lacking in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.227.15.253 (talk) 20:15, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps my comment above is helpful. From the wording in the description of the manufacturing process, I think the description dates from the mid-1800s. Kragen Javier Sitaker (talk) 04:43, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

I too believe that the confusion between the carbamate, carbonate and bicarbonate could do with clarification. Each page should have at least one link to each other as they are so intimately linked.

Perhaps there is some more info or sources to be found on the other language pages, though the Finnish pages are pretty short and also a bit confusing. The FI carbonate page mentions use in baking, textiles and metallurgy and the FI bicarbonate page indicates uses in baking, plastics industry and fertilisers. The FI carbamate page mentions detergents and fertilisers, and as a precursor to urea (popular fertiliser) and mentions it could be used as a raising agent and as an insecticide. The EN page describes it as an inert ingredient in pesticides. The DE page mentions carbamate use in cosmetics, pesticides, intermediate in production of urea, as a cleaning, pickling and neutralizing agent, and potential in auto industry as an SCR catalyst.

Quite limited information for such old and simple compounds.

Idyllic press (talk) 23:53, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Sal Ammoniac link?

I cannot see the direct relation to Sal Ammoniac that requires the link to the page in the See also section.

Sal ammoniac, the mineralogical form of ammonium chloride

While they are ammonia compounds used in food preparation I cannot see any other link and it was confusing me, there is also a strange statement about using Sal ammoniac as a raising agent that may easily be an error as I have not read that it would decompose. I have left a note on the talk page there as well.

Idyllic press (talk) 22:54, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Cannot 'rapidly degrade' into just ammonia gas and CO2

"... Since it readily degrades to gaseous ammonia and carbon dioxide upon heating, ..."

.

That is unbalanced. If it degrades into CO2 and NH3, then H2O is also produced. . BGriffin (talk) 03:00, 2 August 2017 (UTC)BGriffin

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

• Ammonium-carbonate-3D-balls.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:21, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Why is decomposition of the compound dealt with in the section on Production?

Shouldn't it be in a different section, or a section all on its own. Also, detail on the production process (equations, reaction mechanisms) would be lovely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Epictitus (talk • contribs) 15:59, 13 March 2021 (UTC)