Talk:Ancient North Arabian

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject Languages (Rated C-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Languages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of standardized, informative and easy-to-use resources about languages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 ???  This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Arab world (Rated C-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Arab world on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

so..first form of arabic?[edit]

hey, so would this be the earliest form or is there a variant in Yemen which is older? languages like Socotri aren't descended from Arabic right but ancient non-arabic languages...correct me i'm probably wrong..Domsta333 10:11, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

North Arabian and Arabic are descended from a common source, but neither is the descendant of the other. North Arabian is equally distinct from Arabic as Old South Arabian (Sayhadic) or Modern South Arabian is (MSA does not descend from OSA, by the way – I know, the terminology is ugly and confusing, but pay attention to the endings), although it seems to be more closely related.
It's roughly like this:
  • Semitic
    • East Semitic
    • West Semitic
      • Central Semitic
        • Northwest Semitic plus Arabic
          • Northwest Semitic
          • Arabic languages
            • North Arabian
            • Classical Arabic
        • Old South Arabian (Sayhadic)
      • Modern South Arabian
      • Ethiopic
Confused? You know what, I'm too. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 19:01, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Not enough information[edit]

It would to get more information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.38.211.144 (talk) 08:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Which Dialect is the closest to biblical Hebrew. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.38.211.144 (talk) 02:32, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

It just might be wise to include some specific examples of the early inscriptions. "History is in the details." --Anaccuratesource (talk) 07:28, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

As I said below, we know little about these languages, so there's not very much to say. However, provided that the classification we use is correct, all Arabic languages (Classical Arabic and all the North Arabian languages) are equally remote from (or close to, respectively) Hebrew. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:49, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

example translation[edit]

The name example yhyṯʻ-nʻmt (yuhayṯiʻ-niʻmat) is translated as :

"the one who assists niʻmat". yuhayṯiʻ being the imperfect aspect of Dedanite verb stem IV (root y-ṯ-ʻ)."

In Classical Arabic (root y-ṯ-ʻ) يطع means "obey", so could yhyṯʻ-nʻmt actually mean "[he who] beys niʻmat" (يطيع نعمة)? Similar to the modern naming convention of "Abd-X" --A. Gharbeia (talk) 20:59, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually يُطِع is from the root طيع (ṭ-y-ʻ) meaning "to obey". yhyṯʻ is from the root (y-ṯ-ʻ) (يثع) which is a common west Semitic root meaning "to assist". In Classical Arabic, yhyṯʻ would be yūṯʻ (yūṯiʻ) يُوثِع .--Xevorim (talk) 21:22, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
Btw, the "modern Abd-X" names do appear in Ancient North Arabian.--Xevorim (talk) 21:28, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Relation to Classical Arabic[edit]

The article states that these Ancient North Arabian dialects (must) have coexisted with Pre-Classical Arabic. I understood it thus: Ancient North Arabian was a group of dialects, possibly a dialect continuum, of which the immediate predecessor of Qoranic Arabic was one (and probably one of its southernmost exponents), but that particular dialect is not attested in any inscription, or in any pre-islamic text at all. Is that correct? Steinbach (talk) 11:53, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

That's correct. Xevorim (talk) 21:16, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
No, it's not. Arabic was not part of this group, it was clearly distinct (the article is the most obvious difference). Also, there are several pre-Islamic attestations, mostly inscriptions, of Arabic. Arabic (in the south, as you say, the language of the Arabs) and North Arabian (the dialects of northern Arabia) co-existed during all of antiquity. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:30, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
However, it seems that North Arabian is the group of languages most closely related to Arabic (although I'm not completely sure – for example, North Arabian could be a highly conservative group of Northwest Semitic dialects, or more closely related to NW Semitic – without forming part of it – than to Arabic in any event, or equally far from both, or closer to South Arabian – there are countless possibilities the tree might be drawn, and we just know too little about these languages to classify them with confidence); Arabic and North Arabian together form the Arabic languages. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 18:45, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Would it make sense to include spelling in Arabic?[edit]

Interesting article, but I had some real trouble reading the example words. Would it make sense to include their spelling in modern Arabic, or some other semitic alphabet? I think this might make the article more accessible to some at least. 82.128.191.203 (talk) 23:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

North Arabian as an overstructure including old Arabic[edit]

Let's have a discussion about North Arabian (including Taymanitic) versus the subset, defined by isoglosses, including Safaitic and (pre)Classical Arabic. Refer to Ahmad al-Jallad's grammar of Safaitic.--Zimriel (talk) 21:55, 20 June 2015 (UTC)