Talk:Andalusian horse/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Sasata (talk) 00:06, 25 October 2009 (UTC) Hi, I'll be reviewing this article. Comments coming soon. Sasata (talk) 00:06, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Sasata! We look forward to you input. Montanabw^(talk) 00:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Comments

Lead

• "The Andalusian, also known as the Purebred Spanish Horse or PRE (Pura Raza Española; in English, Pure Spanish-bred), is a horse breed from the Iberian Peninsula." Ok halfway through the naming and registration section, I noticed that the lead sentence bugs me, as it leaves room for misinterpretation; perhaps it might be better to say "a breed that was developed in the Iberian Peninsula" or something like that.
  • Done.
• In my opinion, it seems like the lead is out of order. I would expect to see information about the description of the horse (currently 1st half of third paragraph) before reading about registries and strain purity. I see that the lead mimics the layout of the sections, more about that later...
  • The registration section has been moved to after the characteristics section, and the lead re-arranged to follow the new section layout.
• "These registries differ on their definition of the Andalusian and PRE" confused, aren't Andalusian and PRE the same thing?
  • In some people's minds yes, in others, no. Basically we're trying to say in a sentence what we take four rather extensive paragraphs to explain later - that there are many different registries arguing over what exactly this horse is, how to define them, what breed strains are the "purest", who controls the studbook, etc. If you have a suggestion on how to better summarize this section, I would welcome it. The naming/registration section and summary of that section in the lead were the hardest ones for me to write in this article, because of all of the different players involved.
• "...although they are also proud and sensitive animals. " Curious to know how one determines a horse is proud? Is this a horse-talk expression for "holding the head up high"?
  • Removed "proud" in both the lead and corresponding section. This is more of a subjective view, although with their arched neck, these horses do make you think "proud" when you see them.

Naming and registration

• "Today, in many areas, the Andalusian and the Lusitano are controlled by the same registries." How are the horses controlled?
  • Tweaked a bit. Let me know if it works.
• "For example, the International Andalusian and Lusitano Horse Association (IALHA) is the largest Andalusian registering organization in the world with over 850 members, and also registers Lusitanos." awkward, last part seems tacked on
  • Again, tweaked, let me know.
• "These conflicts have resulted in the creation of watchdog groups that protest the way that meetings are being conducted, shows are being held and awards are being given out."
  • Tweaked.
• The info about the internal political conflicts is a bit of a tease, as the reader isn't told what it is about the registration practices that could be controversial or politically motivated. What specifically is it about the organization's conduct that make the watchdog groups protest? What's the name(s) of the watchdogs groups? Without this info it seems incomplete; on the other hand, if this info went in there, it would likely be straying too far from the main topic, which should be about the horse. Would the article suffer if the last three sentences of the first paragraph were chopped?
  • The article probably wouldn't suffer if this was chopped, but it's also a further example of how complicated the horse-world politics are with regard to this breed. If you really think it needs to be removed, I will, but I'd prefer not to. Some of the information you asked for is out there, and I can try to add it in a concise fashion, but as you said, extensive explations would be rather off topic for this article.
• "In Australasia, the Australasia Andalusian Association registers Andalusians (which the registry considers an interchangeable term for PRE), Australian Andalusians, and partbred Andalusians." Would like to clarify about the term "Australian Andalusian" - is this an Andalusian horse born in Australia? Is it possible for an Australian Andalusian to also be a PRE if both the parents are PRE?
  • Added more information on this. Australian Andalusians are crossbred horses that are the result of a "breeding up" program by the registry to improve partbred bloodlines.
• "The registry feels that these terms are used to describe crossbreds" crossbreds or crossbreeds?
  • Fixed, I think.
• "It is the position of ANCCE that the names of "Andalusian" and "Iberian Horse" are not proper terms for the PRE." I didn't see the specific term "Iberian Horse" mentioned before... it this equivalent to "Iberian Saddle Horse", "Iberian War Horse", and "Purebred Iberian Horse"?
  • Yes, it's the equivalent to these. It just seems sort of redundant to say "Purebred Iberian Horse", "Iberian Saddle Horse", "Iberian Horse".
• "maintained by the Cria Caballar for 100 years" the who? sounds like Spanish horse mafia... ah, ok, I see it explained in the next paragraph
  • Moved explanation up to first instance.
• my overall impression of this section was that it was slightly confusing to follow. Suggestions for improvement might include divding into subsections to break the flow and group similar information; eg. one section on the various organizations, another section about the legal issue. Another solution might be to move the whole section to later in the article, so the reader has had a chance to read about and familiarize with the background of the various horse names and breeds
  • Moved section to later in article, added a subsection, and split up the paragraphs a little bit.

History

• "However, genetic studies using mitochondrial DNA show that the Sorraia forms a cluster" need to explain what "forms a cluster" means
  • Tweaked and wikilinked.
• "... both breeds crossed the Strait of Gibraltar and influenced one another." too vague... how did they "influence" each other?
  • Explained I think.
• "...and was also used as a noted war horse." how about "and was also noted for use as a war horse."?
  • Fixed.
• "Andalusian breeding studs were formed in the late 1400s.." "were formed" sounds awkward.. how about "were bred"?... coming back to this one, I think I'm misreading "breeding stud" as "a male horse used for breeding" when it maybe means "a place where male breeding horses are kept and maintained"? Perhaps this could be clarified somewhere (or maybe I missed it...)
  • Tweaked wording and wikilinked stud farm.
• "The Iberian horse breeds were known as the "royal horse of Europe" and were present at every royal court..." does the source really claim it was at every royal court?
  • The source does say "every", but I changed the wording to "many".
• In the Cavendish quote, I would put Cav's name in front of the quote, rather than behind, where it seems tacked on, and conflicts with the period nested in the quote mark. Also, split that up into two sentences, too much info for one. And should the quote be in a blockquote?
  • Split, tweaked and block-quoted.
• "Later, an epidemic in 1832 seriously affected Spain’s horse population" an epidemic of what?
  • Disease of some sort. I can't find a source that details exactly what it was.
• "This line was created in the early 18th century when the Zamora brothers" who?
  • Tweaked.
• "By the 1700s and 1800s," late 1700s?
• Yes. Fixed
• "...and in 1973 an association was formed for the registration of these Andalusians..." does this refer to the AAA? This placement of this sentence corroborates my thinking that the "Naming and registration" section should be moved to lower in the article
  • Specified.
• "Today, all United States Andalusians can be traced directly to the Andalusian stud books in Portugal and Spain." This sentence's placement seems to clash with the previous sentence, which was talking about Australian horse importation regulations
  • Added transition sentence.

Breed characteristics

• "...strong hind quarters and rounded croups" maybe link croup to rump (animal)
  • Linked.
• "The breed tends to have clean legs..." does "clean legs" have a hidden horsey meaning here?
  • Added small explation. Please let me know if more is needed.
• "such as advanced collection" eh?
  • Linked collection. Outside eyes are so useful for catching horsey jargon that goes right over my head... :)
• "Today, around 80% are gray." But of the 4 photos, none are gray?
  • Not sure what you mean here? The second photo in the History section shows a gray horse, as does the photo in the Naming and registration section. Added an animation in the new Pure Spanish Horse subsection that not only shows a gray, but also gives an example of the way they move.
    • My mistake, I didn't look at the pics full size and assumed those horses were white, not gray. I like the animation. Sasata (talk) 19:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
• "are actually frontal bosses" link to boss needs fixing
  • Linked to a wiktionary definition that includes this meaning.
• "The horns were not considered proof of Esclavo descent" were not or are not?
  • Are not. Fixed.

Uses

• "The dramatic appearance of the Andalusian horse" please clarify what part of the appearance is dramatic; I read the description and it sounded like a regular horse to me :)
  • Basically, in war and fantasy epics, they look really cool charging toward the camera (think Arwen's horse in the Lord of the Rings movies), because of the way they're built and the way they move. Added some to try to explain this, but don't know if it came off as too "this breed does everything, including jumping tall buildings".

I've begun on my replies, with comments interspersed above. I probably won't finish tonight, but will get to the rest tomorrow afternoon at the latest. Thank you for your thorough, but fast, review! Dana boomer (talk) 03:45, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I think I've replied to all of your comments above. Please let me know if there are any that I haven't fixed to your satisfaction, or if you have other comments. Dana boomer (talk) 14:48, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I think the changes you made are great, and make the article easier to follow for horse newbies. There's dab links to Neapolitan, Córdoba and Friesian that need fixing. Other than that, the article looks like a GA to me, so I will promote at this time. Thanks for your efforts! Sasata (talk) 19:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

Prose is well-written; article complies with MOS.

1. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c(OR):

   Well-referenced; I verified some of the online citations and everything checked out.

2. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Coverage is broad.

3. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

4. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

5. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   All images have appropriate free use licenses.

6. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

I've fixed the dab links. Thanks again for your review - it's great to have a non-horsey person look over the article to catch the jargon that I can't see, no matter how many times I comb through the article! Dana boomer (talk) 20:02, 25 October 2009 (UTC)