Talk:Andrew Windsor, 1st Baron Windsor

Why 'Andrews' not 'Andrew'?

Query by general reader who doesn't know - when does he start being called Sir Andrews Windsor and not Sir Andrew Windsor? All the contemporary documents I have seen (some) and the entries in the National Archives Discovery catalogue are listed as 'Andrew', not Andrews. In his will (P.C.C. PROB 11/29/416), in the register copy 1543, (Quire 29 Spert), both Will and (separate) Testament, his name is written 'Andrewe', not 'Andrews'. Of course that might be a copyist's error, twice, but if so it was a serious blunder considering the context. He appears four times in text in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, always as Andrew. Also the History of Parliament calls him 'Andrew'. Even Hall's Chronicle, p. 634 paragraph 1, which is fairly contemporary with his time, calls him Sir Andrewe Wyndsore. John Stow calls him 'Andrewe' in the Annales of England in 1600, p. 874. And although Mr. Richardson's Plantagenet Ancestry is much cited in our article, he is not tempted by the vagary, and opts for Sir 'Andrew' Windsor at p. 471 of his 2nd edition. Even King Henry VIII called him 'Andrewe', if this is a legal link. There IS an Andrews Windsor in the 17th century, but he is a different person.

I can see it being Sir Andrews Windsor in Kippis, Biographia Britannica, 1750, p. 1769, Tobias Smollett's British Magazine, Monthly Repository for Gentlemen and Ladies in 1764, p. 574, and then in Arthur Collins's Peerage of England, this vol., 1779, p. 74, then in Banks's Dormant and Extinct Baronage Vol. 2 1808, p. 610, then in Samuel Lysons's Magna Britannia, Beds, Berks and Bucks 1813, p. 518, and so to Colburn's Genealogical and Heraldic Dictionary of 1839, p. 832. And from one or other of these to everywhere else. All of these, incidentally, contain rich materials from which to improve our Wikipedia article.

Far be it from me to suggest that all these people were merely copying one another (though such things have been known): therefore I ask, was his name really Andrews (which was his mother's maiden name, of the Suffolk Andrews family), or was he just plain Andrew, as, for instance, John Colet (who knew him) calls him in the 1512 deed Chancery (P.R.O.) C 1/305/49, or perhaps Andrewe, as he calls himself in C 1/305/48 (Images available at AALT)? Try also C 1/473/78-82, where it is always 'Andrewe' (those are 'e's back-to-front, not 's'). I'd be grateful to know if anyone can put me right. It's quite a jump from 1543 to 1764, and someone might have made a mistake.Eebahgum (talk) 21:37, 3 November 2016 (UTC)

Update: Sir William Dugdale's Baronage of England 1675, Vol II p. 307 has both 'Sir Andrew Windsor' and 'Sir Andrews Windsor' in consecutive sentences, with the maternal name 'Andrews' between the two. Several of the later writers depend on Dugdale or cite him, so might he be the start of it? In the 1522 Perambulation of Ipswich the place of 'Old Robert Andrewes' was now 'Sir Andrew Wyndesores Knyght'. They must surely have known the right form. There is also a Proviso (VI) for 'Sir Andrewe Wyndesor' in the Statutes of the Realm, 28 Henry VIII (1536), c. 39, at p. 699. Eebahgum (talk) 08:52, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

I followed the later peerages when moving the article from Andrew to Andrews, but the more contemporary evidence you provide for Andrew is certainly strong. Opera hat (talk) 10:28, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Page therefore returned to 'Sir Andrew...' - thankyou. Eebahgum (talk) 16:13, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

Bad ref link

Footnote 57, "Celtic Casimir", goes to a dating site that will freeze your computer. Tom Reedy (talk) 22:19, 29 July 2020 (UTC)