Talk:Angles (tribe)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

Are they the same as the "Teutonic Angles"?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.105.200.126 (talk) 15:15, 5 October 2002 (UTC)

" The region's shape, 'an angle' is generally believed to be source Angle toponym, although some suggest angeln as in "to fish" as an alternative." I had to remove this. People have no concept of how modern is 'cartographic imaging' --as attributed to the 5th century or earlier here. Or maybe this was tongue-in-cheek. User:Wetman—Preceding undated comment added at 03:21, 17 October 2003 (UTC)

Um, yeah - they DIDNT NEED cartography. Look at a map its not a large region. Its not some new theory - its existed for centuries. Youre erasing my contribution without even knowing that the angles were teutonic - are you for real? How could you have any backround in history, i mean enough to tamper? user:Tridesch—Preceding undated comment added at 03:25, 17 October 2003 (UTC)

That, I am afraid, is completely false. 'Angle' is a fairly recent Latinised import into English of the Old English 'Engel'(From which comes 'England', etc.) The mathematical shape 'Angle', on the other hand, comes directly from Latin itself - 'angulus'. Up to the end of the 6th century, English and Latin barely met. They could not have borrowed the term. Deriving it from 'to fish' is more likely, but probably untrue. Despite the apparent similarity, they come from different roots. The fact that the theory's been around for centuries makes it almost certainly untrue. We knew next to nothing of linguistics until the 19th century.user:BovineBeast—Preceding undated comment added at 17:15, 12 February 2004 (UTC)

Eh, ja. The Ynglinga saga happens to be the first distinction of Angles from the rest of the Ingvanir. Yes, Angling happens to be the source of name, as the Vanir happen to be from the Vaanern Sea, and Yngvi is the progenitor. User:Kenneth Alan—Preceding undated comment added at 06:21, 4 March 2004 (UTC)

Kenneth Alan, I think it is misleading for you in the edit comments to be saying "rv vandalism" while you're doing nothing of the kind. There is a factual argument about ethymology going on, and such an argument should not be called vandalism. It should be resolved on the talk page if possible.

Note to others: Kenneth Alan propagates on wikipedia an apparently mostly private theory on the history of Germanic peoples. I've created a Vanir/Aesir theory page for it, but he persists in continuing to add statements on history and etymology as factual when these are at the very least contested. Martijn faassen 00:43, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I do agree with your statement that resolution on a talk page is good for this, and please forgive my blatant labeling as vandalism. I have been called a vandal for the very same reasons I reverted this article's page on, in other circumstances today. I apologize for my hypocrisy.

Martijn, just because you haven't witnessed the source yourself, doesn't discount other, unrelated contributors' apparent consensual agreement. Regardless, there isn't a whole lot of detail concerning these subjects of article nor have they ever been disproven. It would be kind of you to see the pages in relation to Angles such as Angeln, Yngvi, House of Yngling, Ynglinga saga, Freyr and Frith. Kenneth Alansson 01:12, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your statement about the vandalism rv. I'm happy to hear we can continue to work with each other.

Back to the debate about your theory: I can't very well go find the source as it's generally not specified. You have very kindly provided a list of source material, but sources for individual theories I haven't been able to track down yet. Of course I'm limited to what I can check nonetheless, but a reference to particular historians, books, papers, data that supports particular theories would be very useful. Not just to me, but because it improves the whole encyclopedia with more information.

What I'm worried about is a continued pattern of statements from you as fact, while these frequently disagree with other historical theories. Fact is difficult in science, and history is full of interpretation. The very least you can do when you add these statements making clear this is a theory, not a fact. Preferably with sources of support for this theory.

The only theories that should be described as fact are theories so widely accepted by such a variety of experts it is considered to be virtually uncontested. That the earth is a flattened sphere for instance. That the planets orbit the sun due to a gravitational force. Even then one should be careful; these theories turn out to be far more contested than the people who consider it uncontested like to think. I myself for instance consider the basics of evolution by natural selection as a given, but many people disagree with me and insist it is called a theory. And they're right, even though I think they're wrong about their assessment of this theory.

I think the theories you propagate are not near to being uncontested, so they should not be described off-hand as if they are. This again adds value to an encyclopedia. An encyclopedia should not just contain knowledge but also knowledge about knowledge. Martijn faassen 22:16, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Martijn, all I'm doing, is alluding to tradition of over a 1500 years in usage by the Northern heathens. Just like whether we would believe it or not about Japan's mythology, there are many people local there who do, and as such, we have to be nice about it. I think suppressing European tribalism is a barbaric attitude, whether you realize that you are an aid in that factor, hindering the many attempts for people to be happy with thier heathen past. See, what you're doing doesn't help much at all, just stall people's self-confidence to feel good about their origins and their non-Biblical Genesis. If you care so much for your own feelings with the evolution(which I agree with, by the way), then you would be able to understand where I am coming from. The Catholic church worked very hard to eliminate this type of data and you are jumping into their place where they have since forgotten about it.

They think their position is uncontested, that they were correct in eradicating people's culture, in favour of a super-culture that recognizes "universality" yet cannot accept any other interpretations of this universe but it's own, thereby lying that they took the care to respect any of these worlds they converted because it was really all about them and their money anyways. I ask you to please reconsider the attitude you are taking by knowing the truth when you see it. If you can see the reasons for this, then don't let it get you down when you find little background. It is depressing enough when I ho looking for it and it is very meagre indeed, mostly allusions to the worship of Yngvi by the Angles and what he represented in value to them(totems, a rune Ingvus or whatnot and MANY language remnants including the TRIBAL NAME ANGLE OR ANGEL, PLACES CALLED ENGLAND, ANGELN and LANGUAGE CALLED ENGLISH, sagas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), but when I find the sources, it isn't much more than that. I have to figure it out. That we know and have consensus that the Angles are from Angeln, that Yngvi was founder of the House of Yngling, in the Ynglinga Saga.

Do you remember your Roman cultural studies? Each tribe had a genius loci or Janus/Juno deity. A father and mother. From there, we think, oh, that's right! Yngvi is the father of the Angles.

It has been asserted for millenia that Yngvi=Freyr, and since we know that English and Frisian are a double language rooted in history, we think, hmmm, that makes sense! The Angles(Angeln) and Frisians(Fryslan) lived as neighbours South of Jutland. Yngvi-Freyr, Anglo-Friesian. Not hard, not hard at all! Why do you persist in holding it as nonsense?

Yngvi-Freyr is supposed to be a prince of the Vaner who gained the throne of Uppsala, regardless of what mystic attachments you may be skeptical of. Every student of Germanics know that the tribes came from Scandinavia. It has been long traditional that the Vaner tribe are Nordic, attested to by the sagas. Look at the Swedish and other translations of the Vaner Sea and there you go, just because there are different pronounciations due to time and localised influence, doesn't discount what isnt a theory, but is FACT. Vanir, Vaner, Vaaner, all the same!

Ing means a moorland, such as Angeln, the type of place where the Angles originate from on the Vaner shore, and Ing also means a people, means where somebody springs from, see the viking talk page. Why is it so difficult for you to accept and why do you quarantine this as such??? WHYWHYWHYWHY??????? GENERAL TOPICAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THEM ASSERTS THIS!!!!! You disappoint me deeply, Martijn. Kenneth Alansson 02:35, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

To put this out of the way, I am not part of some movement to suppress knowledge about anything, including European tribalism. In fact I would like to know more about it, and this is part of my attempt to learn more. You obviously have some ideas you feel are very important, also on an emotional level. This in itself is not bad as everybody has their own ideas. How wikipedia tries to resolve this is by including all theories and to qualify them carefully. I think this is good science and good in an encyclopediac venture. I think your passion for your own theory influences you to sometimes remove stuff that conflicts with your ideas and replace it with your own theory. This worries me.

I am rather dubious that there is a historical theory about the origins of the Germanic tribes that can be described as so agreed upon by everybody in the field that it is next to fact. I think such theories are very rare in history; I can't think of an equivalent theory for the origins of any other people in the world. We have theories for the origins of the Indo-Europeans, the Aryans in India, the Etruscans, the Latin tribe, the Greeks, the Turks, the Aztecs, and so on. We don't have facts. We have evidence and debates. As long as multiple competing theories exist one should not be described as fact. Even with a single extant theory it may not have enough evidence to be described as fact.

I know there are multiple competing theories for the origins of Germanic tribes, if only because I've seen you remove statements that conflict with the theory you added to wikipedia. Please leave the originals in, add your own theories (described as theory), and wikipedia will be more enriched by it than if either of them were left in it by themselves. Martijn faassen 12:53, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Martijn, have you been reading my contributions to this discussion regarding my evidence? I was practically screaming it because you haven't responded according to the details nary once. We get off track into the bureaucratic aspects of Wikipedia rather than deal with the material more precisely. Kenneth Alansson 14:50, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I have already stated(in other words) that this is not a formal chapter in any book I have read. There are numerous allusions to it(especially London books), but due to the mass repression of such assertions to tribal origins, trying to include that in a serious book for publishing in a place like New York City would get an author laughed out of the office. There is still a hegemony of anti-heathen bias here in the States that supports Christianity, Judaism, barely Islam, pokes fun of all other religions, but a minor respect for agnostic and atheist has wide support. The religious animosity here is tremendous when it comes to associations and public relations. I am not trying to host the pages as temples, just comment about the original sources of these cult aspects to the tribes that have almost wholly abandoned their origins, betraying their roots, so to speak, and that is reflected in your confusion.

Yes, it is true, these things I have spoken of aren't widely circulated because they've almost all faded away with time and disuse-with great Catholic help and Protestant sucking up to Catholics to share in the power sprees of dominance(It's really too sad that the Reformers and liberal religions became copycats and pulled what last vestiges of heathenry to their cause to defeat the Catholics while usurp the heathens' ways-in order to stay strong, the reformers knew how to divert the local heathens by holding prettier faces, ones the heathens could recognize weren't from Rome or Constantinople, and warmed up to)-do you see how things went down along these lines? A different type of 'divide and conquer'. I intended to preserve what little of the past there is to provide a basis to what we know before it is forgotten even more, by people trying to justify the irrelevance of Germanic tribal heathenry and discouraging proper treatment. If I and other Anglo-Scandinavian historians didn't put forth as much effort to get the words out, I'd still always have to turn to the USA History Channel for my daily dose of propaganda about how great Rome, Greece, Israel, D.C., Egypt et al was/is and never anything positive to contribute to other cultures, as they are somehow "unimportant" in all respects and comparisons.

I am sick and fucking tired of the propaganda presented as widespread knowledge like gossip almost everywhere in Euramerican history texts bragging about how the Mediterranean is elite and the surrounding peoples are barbarian garbage. They have all the license to gossip gossip gossip their propaganda without any credibility other than their intense praise of those topics they support and the soft moneys to fund their blasphemous words in every work they do. I don't ask for money and I use my own brain, my own heart, and give it the best intellectualy sensitive treatment I can figure with the current knowledge I have. My treatments do not, however, lend credibility to attempts by other contributors to muddy the clear waters of illumination intentionally or mistakenly. If there is knowledge, then we should acknowledge it, not confuse ourselves and dumb down a little bit before 'MR SOFTMONEYBAGS' comes by and decides to endorse the belief, compromise-corrupting the truth for some money. How many more centuries are people going to complacently popularise themselves in the style the Romans would have them? Similar to 'Barbaric Trailor Trash'! How many centuries do people have to put up with playing the puppet at the end of the strings of religious puppetmasters calling them worthless savages unless they have Jesus etc.? I do not support consensual denigration of a group of people I am related to for any reason whatsoever, least, your weak confusion that only serves their purpose more by blocking my moves with bureaucracy. You may not realise when you do it, how it helps enemies to this cause, but it is infuriating. Kenneth Alansson 14:50, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Martijn, I agree, but the articles haven't been streamlined for many months now, perhaps even from their inception. Don't go blaming me for all of it now, I was just "fitting-in". As I have seen many other articles' sloppiness go un-noticed, I didn't think this would be an issue, and I suppose I underestimated your zeal. I have some difficulty sitting down still long enough for these projects to make complete sense in a structured way, and wish others would contribute to the subject matter doing some real research, not just copying the works of others, providing little insight/depth into the issues. I think that the other ideas should be presented as belief as well, but just remember, it will be a stalemate if they aren't joined in a workable manner, contributing little of consumable, helpful subject matter. As I've stated above, this only serves to undermine the subject matter and it does pleasure some sick people to see topics like this suffer while they have their hands all over their own tribalist occult glory. Perhaps I am a bit proud, but I reserve the right to be, I am defending the interests of all my kin and more, doing it as truthfully as I can muster by going upon what is available, whether you are ready to recognise it or not. That is up to you.  :) Kenneth Alansson 14:50, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I'm glad you agree. I'm not blaming you for all that's wrong with these articles. I'm just asking you not to aggravate the matter. Add your theories as theories, leave the original theories in (as theories). Later on we can get back to it and restructure it. I'm willing to help, but I cannot do it now, as frequently I can't even recognize that a debate exists before I check the history of an article. It's not stupid bureaucracy to take some care when editing an article.

You believe that an important part of history is being suppressed. So don't contribute to the problem and suppress other people's theories, no matter whether you think they're wrong. Put them both in, and let the reader figure out the truth of it.

By the way, I don't think I quite fit in your ideological framework (either as pro or con). Could you please leave me out of it? Martijn faassen 21:32, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Martijn, I never blamed you as the cause of these ills, but you did volunteer your own involvement. I merely mentioned that there are people who derive enjoyment from you being a "stick in the mud" for an episode like this. I was hoping you'd get a grander scope of all this, from me saying that. Some people call it, being a "tool". Such people who enjoy this use circumstances like these to brag about how much even more credible and grande their cultures are, especially nationalist propagandic historians, and downplay any attempt to upgrade the data more appropriately. You see? They take the majority view of especially Mediterranean or Middle-East cultures and keep lobbying for it's prominence in politics and public knowledge, shoving out anything irrelevant to their agenda. This subject of heathen roots will suffer if that is allowed to continue, and perhaps someday the Eastern Europeans will be pressured to forget their own origins for the more powerful South and West. It had already begun with the Teutonic Knights and the Nazis invading there. They were acting in imitation of the very same people who used and violated them, the Romans.

Although I am not Slavic or whatnot, I sympathise with all they have gone through, the McCarthyism etc. They have a right to choose their political system, but as long as Germany has economic reigns and tries to dominate those CIS states, they will try to repress local nationalism, just as the USA has done recently in Iraq where the people had a consensus to get their country back when the USA refused it, in their arrogance that they were right in being there to take the local economy away. Those Slavs will all fall and be absorbed into the Borg collective like the Germans before them. They will continue to do as I am doing, for perhaps longer than I have time to, before my account of my ancestors goes to waste, as it is an old story told by an old man, who nobody cares to listen to. That is why my work here is important. This is a very serious matter Martijn! It is called an info-war, and will be copycat to the Church, once bastardised "English" becomes the primary language almost everywhere, replacing the bastardised "Latin" monopoly of the past. It is a sick cycle that must be stopped by sincere people. We don't new New Rome/Washington DC conquering the world and encouraging the hiding of secrets reflective of their immoral behaviour in Wikipedia, by blocking moves to bring different, unfunded views to light. That is what happened to the intelligentsia of Russia. Silencing. Kenneth Alansson 00:37, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

If you want to challenge me again, just read the arguement at the top of this page. I fit into the role of the second poster, because I do know more than that first person and agree with the second. How many theories are appropriate??? Just yesterday, I and User:MPF were disputing which obsolete or unofficial taxonomy is appropriate to label on the Talk:Scots pine page. We agreed it couldn't be excessive. Tridesh obviously has the ball away from Wetman, as I do with many other people regarding this article. The perception that angulus means the shape of the land is a widely known, false assumption that has seen ill amounts of circulation, but it isn't the truth, which Tridesh asserted. It is the same with me. I knew automatically what had to be written because I actually did in-depth study like Tridesh.

You may believe his answers harsh, much like my own, but that is the price to pay for trying to change the truth in front of a witness. For instance, I know that Angeln refers to the moorlands and fishing waters of the area, because this is a deep-rooted feature in Old-English culture. Angling means fishing. Ing happens to mean marshland, swamp. It's in the dictionary. We have our chief place known as Angeln, where it is written in a few of my books that actually do study the English emigration to Britain say they came from there. My online sources including encyclopedias and some dictionaries all point there. I haven't seen any contraversial statements to this, as it is the status quo, yet you make it clear to doubt me at every turn, regardless of what I state. Why not that Tridesh truth-speaker? He and I agree. Aren't you going to persecute him, too? Why is it so difficult for you to drop your hair-trigger response of putting out a clause or caveat with everything I write, when my writings are consistent with the beliefs of others, just because you yourself haven't ventured out and researched it yourself? I'm sorry I left out Bovine Beast I agree with him too. Kenneth Alansson 00:55, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The Ynglingsaga is available on the web at http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Heimskringla/ynglinga.html with no mention whatsover that I can find that Angles are descended from Yngvi. (I also own a more recent English translation.) I have removed this reference. The Ynglings in the Ynglinssaga are in any case a royal family in Sweden from whom later descend the Kings of Norway.

Angling means "hooking" from Old English _angel_ hook, especially a fishhook. The mathematical word _angle_ is from Latin _angulum_ 'corner'. Both are descendants of PIE *ang-/*ank- "to bend".

From http://www.wordreference.com/English/definition.asp?en=Angle :

Angle

noun a member of a West Germanic people from N Germany who invaded and settled large parts of E and N England in the 5th and 6th centuries a.d

[ETYMOLOGY: from Latin Anglus, from Germanic (compare English), an inhabitant of Angul, a district in Schleswig (now Angeln), a name identical with Old English angul hook, angle², referring to its shape].

No Latin is needed.

_Ing_ words do not appear in the Old English dictionary at http://penguin.pearson.swarthmore.edu/~scrist1/scanned_books/png/oe_clarkhall/b0176.png with any relation to marsh or swamp. In any case _Ing_ is not the same word as :_Angle_ and even possibly unrelated to Norse _Yngvi_ though scholars usually suppose a relationship and I think that relationship likely.

User:jallan 16:29, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Look,angulus (not angulum) on latin do not means only "angle" but also piece or gulf. So,those who live in a piece of that land?those who live near a gulf?--Doubttttt (talk) 18:37, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

A bit of a quibble, this, but 'Angle' isn't descended from 'Engel'; it's descended from the Latin 'Anglus', which was borrowed from the Germanic word which became, in Old English (at a later stage) 'Engel'. The original borrowing, however, occurred in the time of Tacitus, in the first century AD - before the development of Old English. So, 'Angle' isn't descended from 'Engel', but rather is a cognate of it. 46.64.26.218 (talk) 03:45, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Pliny the Edler: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingaevones — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.20.52.193 (talk) 21:17, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Angles/Frisians Mystery

I don't think it is really so mysterious that Angles are mentioned in historical sources, while archeologists find evidence for a Frisian migration. When Bede talks about Angles, he is talking about a political group; he's associating them with kingdoms such as East Anglia. When archeologists talk about Frisians, they talk about a cultural group, identified by excavated objects. It could simply have been that cultural Frisians were politically Angles. This would not be unusual, for example today, cultural Frisians are politically either Dutch or Germans. --Chl 01:32, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I have removed "This small and relatively easterly geographic localisation of the original Angeln tribal group has led to one of the Anglo-Saxon invasion's enduring mysteries: how it is possible that the Anglo-Saxons were so frequently mentioned as colonisers of ancient England in all the ancient and medieval written sources, while evidence of the neighbouring and much more powerful Frisians' concurrent colonising activities in England has been so limited to discoveries in archaeological science, and more often to logical deductions and inferences alone. Ethnic Frisians are known to have inhabited the land directly in the path of any migration route from Angeln to England (except for the long and difficult route by sea around the northern tip of Denmark). They also inhabited lands between the ancient Saxon domain and England; yet they are rarely mentioned as having taken part in the vast migration. This same hypothesis has been applied to the Franks, since the Saxons made a short stay in northwestern Gaul (the Bessin in what became Normandy) before ultimately moving to England. In the Roman era, much of the southern coast was called the Saxon Shore and attested for their presence in the English Channel." as it is unsourced and nonsensicle. For starters there is evidence for Frisian migration to Great Britain, Bede mentions them and we also have Dumfries in Scotland which means 'Frisian's Hill'. Secondly as it is believed the Angles had a territory that stretched from East to West in Southern Jutland (that is, it had an East and West coast) the Frisians are not in the way of migrating Angles, or that the Angles would have to sail around the tip of Jutland (which is far from impossible for a Seafaring people as the Vikings for one proved). Sigurd Dragon Slayer (talk) 10:50, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Angles have all migrated ,Saxons partially . Frisians fought Franks before the Radboud's final deafeat.In Frankish Empire they lost their language ,related to Anglo-Saxons to new early medieval Middle-German from Frankonia .Angles were afraid of the arrival of new people from middle Sweden-Old Uppsala-Danes ,who's defeated Heruli in Eastern Denmark and were on search for new conquests.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Edelward (talk • contribs) 00:24, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

NPOV

The article contains extensive edits made at 22:01 on 27 Oct 2004 by User:24.255.40.174, an alias of the banned User:Kenneth Alan. The accuracy of the article cannot be relied on until they have been edited out - MPF 17:33, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Classics fixes

I didn't see anything wrong some careful classics couldn't fix, but I went into the article late. Also I do like the pictures if you don't mind. Illustration is one of the virtues of on-line presentation. You do need the Latin, as the early sources are Roman (and Ptolemy, who wrote in Greek but was later Latinized). Also we are only reinventing the wheel here. The small size and non-angular shape cast doubt on the angle, which is one of the reasons why a larger angle was postulated. All the problems you are arguing about really are problems of the topic and have been argued a good many times before. Another advantage of an on-line encyclopedia is that it gets the topic together for a large number of people. One disadvantage of course is the limitation of space, but you get around that with interlinked articles. I hope you do not get too angry with each other. On learning of a new fact or an error one ought to be able to say "oh yes, of course" and do a 180 degree volte face if that is warranted. Embarrasing, isn't it? Has to be done, has to be done.Dave 03:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

New Assessment Criteria for Ethnic Groups articles

Hello, WikiProject Ethnic groups has added new assessment criteria for Ethnic Groups articles. Your article has automatically been given class=stub and reassess=yes ratings. [corrected text: --Ling.Nut 22:57, 16 October 2006 (UTC)] Don't feel slighted if the article is actually far more than a stub -- at least in the beginning, all unassessed articles are being automatically assigned to these values.

-->How to assess articles

Revisions of assessment ratings can be made by assigning an appropriate value via the class parameter in the WikiProject Ethnic groups project banner {{Ethnic groups}} that is currently placed at the top of Ethnic groups articles' talk pages. Quality assessment guidelines are at the Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team's assessment system page. Please see the Project's article rating and assessment scheme for more information and the details and criteria for each rating value. A brief version can be found at Template talk:Ethnic groups. You can also enquire at the Ethnic groups Project's main discussion board for assistance. Another way to help out that could be an enjoyable pastime is to visit Category:WikiProject Ethnic groups, find an interesting-looking article to read, and carefully assess it following those guidelines. Thanks!
--Ling.Nut 20:14, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Dover / Rugen images

That's a nice coincidence, but has Rugen ever been home of the Angles? I suppose it is quite a bit too far away from Schleswig. --149.229.89.217 01:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

This page has been vandalized.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.250.107.220 (talk) 02:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Rügen (Kap Arkona)

The 'island' of Rügen is not relevant to discussion of the Angles, who originated in the district of Angeln in south-east Jutland. There was no Germanic settlement further east than East Holstein at this period, as has been verified by place-name research.

Kap Arkona, at the northeren end of Rügen, overlooking the Baltic Sea, became a Slav cultic centre in the early medieval period (8-10th centuries). Germans only expanded eastwards in the period of the 'Ostsiedlung' from approximately 1150 CE occupying and germanizing lands held by the Obodrites (Wends) and related groups of Slavs. 217.42.56.158 21:39, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

This article, for the most part, is worded awkwardly and generally not up to the same standard as other Wikipedia pages. For example, in the first paragraph, what does it mean that the Angles "took their name from the cultural ancestor of Angeln"? Is this referring to a language? A person? What is a "cultural ancestor" and were the Angles scholars who researched the "cultural ancestry" of Angeln, then decided to adopt its name? (I doubt it). The paragraph under "Evolution of the Name" is more pedantic than informative. For example, explaining the Latin gender declension of "Anglius" doesn't contribute to the argument for its word origin. What is the relevance of Pope Gregory changing the spelling from Anglii to Angli, which we are informed "he did in an epistle"? Somebody who is an authority on the subject and a clear writer really needs to edit this page. I would go ahead and try to clarify the English, but I don't know enough about the subject to not insert further misinterpretation on top of the existing confusion.WikiPicky 21:50, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5620611/Archaeologists-uncover-silver-treasure-German-island.html https://www.thelocal.de/20170925/rare-silver-treasure-from-viking-age-discovered-on-north-sea-island Hedeby was halfway between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedeby — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:B40:2258:8CF5:DFC9:30ED:B (talk) 18:56, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Merger with Anglo-Saxons article?

I suggested this because the two article cover a lot of similar ground, and if we believe Bede's account the Angles, migrated to England in 5th C. AD, and became the "English", so in a way that is a continuation of this article. Is there are any documented sources of Angle tribes remaining in Germany? Could we have a not have a short of background in the Anglo-Saxons article about their origins, or does this this merit a whole article by itself? (Nebulousity 10:45, 22 May 2007 (UTC))

Yes, it does warrant its own article - it already contains a lot of detailed information not found in the Anglo-Saxons article. TharkunColl 10:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I agree, it's better to have it as a seperate article. I removed the merge templates.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Nebulousity (talk • contribs) 13:00, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

This article stinks

I can barely read it let alone understand it. What on earth? --Filll 03:04, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Northumbria etymology wrong

The Wiki entry on Northumbria gives the correct origin of the term as referencing the Humber estuary. It has nothing to do with the Angles as is incorrectly implied in this "Angles" entry. The ethnicity of this kingdom is similarly complicated and it is unclear that Northumbria ever had a primarily Angle population or governance, though that may have been a perception at the time of Bede. 70.60.108.190 18:26, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

An angle is also a degree that an object can be put at to change the speed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.172.27.213 (talk) 01:33, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Is the use of the word "heathen" really necessary?

That is all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.53.228.87 (talk) 07:31, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

language of the Angles?

Did/do the Angles have a language of their own? I've read things strongly implying that they did/do, but it's all rather vague. Maybe something about this can be mentioned in the article? Gringo300 (talk) 20:28, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

ohh yerr

I Hәтэ Λпglэs Mәпп —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.159.253 (talk) 16:31, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

migration to thuringia !

sorry for my interruption - the german wikipedia tells about a turingian migration of some sections of the angles alongside the "british invasion" - please check it - thx ~~Brühlfrosch —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.23.228.215 (talk) 16:33, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

??????

did the angles learn from the romans???????????????????????????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Triplejs97 (talk • contribs) 01:44, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Ohthere

The wikilink to Ohthere goes to the wrong person, the correct link is Ohthere of Hålogaland. --Finn Bjørklid (talk) 23:25, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Now fixed per this diff, thanks for pointing it out. Nortonius (talk) 12:10, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

What is the correct adjectival form of "Angle"?

I've seen three different adjectives for "Angle" in different works concerning Anglo-Saxons and so forth, but I wonder what is actually considered correct. I.e. is "Angle kingdoms in England" correct as it is, or should it be Anglic or Anglian instead? Hayden120 (talk) 08:03, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Alternative Etymological Explanation for the Origin of the Word England

I would like to add another etymological explanation for the word England as opposed to the one stating that Eng is a derivative of Angle, thus implying that England means land of the Angles.

In England there is an East Anglia - why not a West Anglia or simply Anglia for the whole country - because the Angles did not settle the whole of England therefore it was never Anglialand.

An English speaking person seeing Eng either as a syllable of a word or on its own would pronounce it with a hard e and not Ing. England is, however, pronounced as though spelt Ingland. This is the clue to the correct meaning of England. The Old Norse word Eng which is also a modern Danish word, and in Danish pronounced ing, means meadow. England was named by Norse settlers who on first landing on our shores observed that it was a land of meadows - thus England in Old Norse.

I live in Denmark and speak Danish and know what England means in modern Danish - literally Meadowland. I live on a road in Vejle, Denmark called Vestre Engvej - pronounced Ingvi. It means West Meadow Way!

It is also possible that the correct spelling is not England but Englund. Lund is a common place name suffix in Scandinavian countries and has another meaning than land. Profoundpaul (talk) 11:56, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

With all due respect please discuss such ideas on relevant internet forums, where I am sure people will be happy to explain what is wrong with your theory. On Wikipedia we try to summarise what is published. This talk page is for proposing such things or discussing how to explain them the right way.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 20:03, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Andrew is correct PLUS what you are doing is considered Original Research and has no place in Wikipedia. HammerFilmFan (talk) 21:23, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Harrislee sounds quite English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrislee — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:B40:2258:8CF5:DFC9:30ED:B (talk) 18:58, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Andrew: He did not post a theory. HammerFilmFan: He did not post original research. To both of you: What he did was asked a few reasonable questions and stated the fact as to what "England" means in modern day Dutch and German. Thibeinn (talk) 01:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Latin?

Why the inclusion of '(Latin Anglii)'? Regards, Rob (talk) 15:54, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Because it is relevant factual information that benefits the article? HammerFilmFan (talk) 21:24, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Germany Manga where they Angles came from where not Christian

All you do is tell your lies here. Engish language did not exist until the Norman's( Orginally a tribe from Scandinavia) brought it over from present day France over sometime in the late 13th century. Facts are 1. German language did not exist until 8th century!. Why see ptolemy's maps from 2nd century AD, Germania (Mostly Roman, Christians and where latin speakers and writers, and Germania Manga which includes the area's of Schleswig-Holstein ( East and northern side, Non Christians, most likey did not speak latin). Charlemange was note: First German king in mid 8th century who started the use of the German language see Monk "Abogran". So how could these Anglo Saxon mythical tribes speak OLD ENGLISH when the German language did not exist in the 5th century its IMPOSSIBLE!. Attila the hun also traveled up the Danube and then the Rhine and was killed in Gaul (France) no where near the Angles. No Huns made it that far ever, And the later Avars around the 8th and 9th century had bases in Hungary and Bulgaria. Mongols in the 13th century also never made it to Schleswig-Holstein area. Please supply some artifacts some copies of the actual documents from 1000-1500 years ago. And shame me in front of the whole world. Also the slavic tribes see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limes_Saxoniae. Arrived in 9th century but yes all the Germanic and Germans tribes left for Britannia in the 5th century AD. My history is not the best but I believe only two unarmed Saxon tribes arrived by ship in the city of present day Wessex around 460,470AD but Saxony is near Czech Republic?. All English old documents like the dooms day book 1066, Bede the Monk, as example are in latin, all your churches before say the 16th century where all christian and later Catholic. I could go and on but you really should know better. OLD ENGLISH. Thou shall be quite now. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=germania+magna&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=VYZ5U5ziGcnikAWAsoG4DQ&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=684#q=magna+germania&spell=1&tbm=isch https://www.google.com.au/#q=britannia+latin+cities+names http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_place_names_in_Britain ROMANS spoke and wrote in latin. SCHLESWIG HOLSTEIN WAS IN GERMANY MANGA they where not Christens like you!. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.80.98.184 (talk) 16:14, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Borgstedterfeld

There is no "Borgstedterfeld". There is a hamlet called Borgstedtfelde near the village of Borgstedt. German archaeologists refer to the site as Borgstedtfelde or Borgstedt. I have changed Borgstedterfeld to Borgstedt (which has an article in en.wikipedia). --Frans Fowler (talk) 20:54, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Angles (tribe)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Style issues need to be addressed, and the article could probably be expanded. --Fsotrain09 04:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 04:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 07:49, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Modern coastline on map

The map seems to use modern coastlines, from around 1950. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.114.146.117 (talk) 06:58, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Can you help make a better map?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 08:30, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

I don't know. I can foresee running into the following problems. 1) The map is unfortunately a PNG map, rather than SVG which makes it hard to edit and use as a base. I'd have to draw everything from scratch. 2) Although I know enough to be able to date the map, I doubt I'd be able to draw the classical coastline accurately. 3) Time, time, time... I think it would take a lot of research, a lot of drawing, a lot of editing.

At the very least, I can see that some river deltas are wrong in Britain, Iberia, Gaul, Italy and Egypt. Come to think of it, some rivers might have changed course as well. Another big change I can see is that due to coastal erosion, calamities and human activity the coast of the Low Countries, northern Germany and Denmark is completely wrong. There are also some coastal areas with a low elevation gradient which might have looked different because of the lower sea level at the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.114.146.117 (talk) 18:41, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

And besides the coastlines, a map compiled by Ptolemy from roughly the same time period shows that Germany was a lot more crowded than it appears on this map. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.114.146.117 (talk) 21:53, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Okay, so I discovered https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/Roman_Empire_125_general_map.SVG – that makes me (slightly) less pessimistic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.114.146.117 (talk) 02:32, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Re Angel/Angels/Angelians

It is Being aparted from the devil & evil spirits Is Jibril AlayetuAlahewaSallam RahmakumullahHafezAlAllah.-The Only CreatorAllahsubhanotaalaanhukum RahmaKumullahHafezAllah-The Mujjaded Alpha Tulut RadiAllahtaalakumRahmakumullah Hafez AlAllah Online... The Mujjaded Alpha Tulut RadiAllahtaalakumRahmakumullah Hafez AlAllah (talk) 11:43, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Re "Ilham"-The Elhaminians-MujjadedAlphaTulutRadiAllahotaalakum RadiAllahtaalakumRahmakumullahHafezAlAllah.

The defination Of "AhlalKitabins"-Zabur-Taurah/Tora/Towrat-Inzil(Bible) & The QuranulAzim/Mubin.[Forkanian Lingual/Language Basis.]-The Holy Quran AlMajid also Laguagated in 21Alphabetic Interpretation,which have Controversies of Accuracy and Blessing...The MujjadedAlphaTulutRadiAllahtaalakumRahmakumullahHafezAlAllah.-Hazrat Mohammed Zulfiqur Rahman Mujjaded e Sirrul Zillul AliAlAllah. The Mujjaded Alpha Tulut RadiAllahtaalakumRahmakumullah Hafez AlAllah (talk) 13:17, 13 May 2018 (UTC)