Talk:Antisemitism in Russia/Archives/2018
 | This is an archive of past discussions about Antisemitism in Russia. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Get rid of Recent Antisemitic Incidents in Russia since Wikipedia is not a newspaper?
As I have stated on the Antisemitism in the United States page, I am not sure listing individual incidents is a good idea since wikipedia is not a newspaper WP:NOTNP and I don't think we want these articles to be a list of anecdotes or for us to have to do original research to determine which anecdotes are representative and meaningful. Perhaps this discussion should be elevated to some other place since it seems to span multiple articles. -Dan Eisenberg (talk) 21:24, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
- Given lack of objections and RfC results on this same issue at [1] I am going ahead an removing these incidents. -Dan Eisenberg (talk) 22:28, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
2016 Moscow International Conference on Combating Anti-Semitism
The World Jewish Congress has released information saying that Russia is not antisemitic at all. The information was deleted. Can we please restore it? The WJC is not POV; they are as reliable a source as can be.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:31, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
- User:Galassi and User:Iryna Harpy: You've asked me to discuss this on the talkpage. Can you please explain why you think the World Jewish Congress is POV? I couldn't disagree more.Zigzig20s (talk) 07:26, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
- I've restored it because the aforementioned editors don't seem interested in discussing this, and the WJC is not POV imo.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:40, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
- The article says nothing about antisemitism in Russia. It is not scholarly, and it contradicts everything else on the subject.--Galassi (talk) 00:12, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- The two articles say that there is almost no antisemitism in present-day Russia. We might as well rename this article, "Lack of antisemitism in Russia". Why are you deleting this referenced info?Zigzig20s (talk) 01:23, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- Really? What an interesting take on a politically motivated conference as compared to what multiple reliable sources have to say about this brave, new, antisemitic Russia under Putin: Russian anti-Semitism Rears Its Head in Wake of Putin Foe's Murder, Anti-Semitism Is on the Rise in Russia—and the Kremlin's TV Network Is in on It, Vladimir Putin calls for Jews to emigrate to Russia amid increasing anti-Semitic violence in Europe, Why Putin's Russia will turn anti-Semitic, Putin Says Ukraine's Revolutionaries Are Anti-Semites. Is He Right?, Russian protesters call for ban on Chabad movement – anti-Semitism at play?, Putin's Chosen People, The New Russian Anti-Semitism, Jews Are Fleeing Russia Because Of Putin, etc. put what the conference has to say about itself, and the lauding of Putin, in a different light. You're taking great chunks of quotes from Putin (and note that, per WP:TITLE, this article is not about Putin's political rhetoric but about antisemitism in Russia), and WP:UNDUE tracts of these accolades without any context other than referencing the source writing about itself. Doing so is not encyclopaedic, but a POV account about how terrific the idea of the conference is... which is not the same thing as the reality. A mention of the conference is not UNDUE, but not in the form of pure WP:ADVOCACY you're pushing. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:41, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- Oh, and as for the 8%... how was it 'shown'? Through this, or taking this into account? Have you read the methodology report? No serious statistical research centre would use such tiny, proscribed research groups. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:04, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- User:Iryna Harpy: I'm not pushing anything. I'm trying to relay referenced information about the conference, and the NPOV World Jewish Congress. How would you like to add the content about the conference and the WJC's views please?Zigzig20s (talk) 08:25, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- Oh, and as for the 8%... how was it 'shown'? Through this, or taking this into account? Have you read the methodology report? No serious statistical research centre would use such tiny, proscribed research groups. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:04, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- Really? What an interesting take on a politically motivated conference as compared to what multiple reliable sources have to say about this brave, new, antisemitic Russia under Putin: Russian anti-Semitism Rears Its Head in Wake of Putin Foe's Murder, Anti-Semitism Is on the Rise in Russia—and the Kremlin's TV Network Is in on It, Vladimir Putin calls for Jews to emigrate to Russia amid increasing anti-Semitic violence in Europe, Why Putin's Russia will turn anti-Semitic, Putin Says Ukraine's Revolutionaries Are Anti-Semites. Is He Right?, Russian protesters call for ban on Chabad movement – anti-Semitism at play?, Putin's Chosen People, The New Russian Anti-Semitism, Jews Are Fleeing Russia Because Of Putin, etc. put what the conference has to say about itself, and the lauding of Putin, in a different light. You're taking great chunks of quotes from Putin (and note that, per WP:TITLE, this article is not about Putin's political rhetoric but about antisemitism in Russia), and WP:UNDUE tracts of these accolades without any context other than referencing the source writing about itself. Doing so is not encyclopaedic, but a POV account about how terrific the idea of the conference is... which is not the same thing as the reality. A mention of the conference is not UNDUE, but not in the form of pure WP:ADVOCACY you're pushing. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:41, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- The two articles say that there is almost no antisemitism in present-day Russia. We might as well rename this article, "Lack of antisemitism in Russia". Why are you deleting this referenced info?Zigzig20s (talk) 01:23, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- The article says nothing about antisemitism in Russia. It is not scholarly, and it contradicts everything else on the subject.--Galassi (talk) 00:12, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- Including this section strikes me as wp:recentism. Is this event likely to be remembered as noteworthy in 10 years (WP:10YT)? My guess not and that it should probably not be included. -Dan Eisenberg (talk) 09:22, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- It's the inaugural conference, which suggests there will be more to come. The World Jewish Congress certainly seems to think it is notable. It was covered by the JTA.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:06, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS, and speculating on the importance and impact of the conference is WP:CRYSTAL. Until (or if) there are third party WP:RS analysing the impact and importance of the conference, at best it's a conference reporting on itself with media attention from the Russian Federation's state run agencies applauding it. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:03, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- Do you reject the validity of the JTA as well?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:27, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
- I assume you're talking about this article (note that you've bunged up your own link to the article above). Sorry, but what does JTA say? All it's doing is presenting a summary of what the WJC have said. There is no analysis or secondary opinion: neither commendation or criticism. Filling in their online content by regurgitating information has zero value. All it confirms is that they can summarise pre-existing content. This is an encyclopaedic article, not an essay WP:ABOUTEVERYTHING. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:15, 9 November 2016 (UTC)
- Do you reject the validity of the JTA as well?Zigzig20s (talk) 00:27, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
- Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS, and speculating on the importance and impact of the conference is WP:CRYSTAL. Until (or if) there are third party WP:RS analysing the impact and importance of the conference, at best it's a conference reporting on itself with media attention from the Russian Federation's state run agencies applauding it. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:03, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
- It's the inaugural conference, which suggests there will be more to come. The World Jewish Congress certainly seems to think it is notable. It was covered by the JTA.Zigzig20s (talk) 10:06, 7 November 2016 (UTC)