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{{WikiProject Syria|class=Starts}

A summary of this article appears in Assyrian people.

Syriac people

The term Syriac people gives 730,000 hit counts in google. [[1]] . VegardNorman (talk) 12:02, 16 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

yes. It's another name for the group also known as Assyrians/Syriacs and variants. dab (𒁳) 13:08, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article

This article is useless, it doesn't give any real information. It just keeps confusing people who are already confused. This article as with Nestorians and Chaldeans should be merged into with the Assyrian people. We don't see the Kurds having different articles for their different denominations, so why should we divide ourselves? Syriac does not stand for the western group, it stands for all Syriacs including Maronites, Melkites, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Arameans and so on.--Yohanun (talk) 13:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

yes, this article just adds to the confusion. be very clear that this article concerns only adherents of the West Syrian Rite. Citing references that mention "Syriacs" is not enough, since "Syriacs" may also refer to the entire group (including "Assyrians"). It would be best to merge this into the main article. dab (𒁳) 14:00, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So then, Yohanun, what your saying is that the article Assyrian people should change name to Syriacs? The TriZ (talk) 17:08, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Jacobite" vs. "Western"

Is the "Western Syriac" group identical with the "Jacobite" group? One term is geographical while the other is denominational. I haven't yet seen a source corrobating that "Western Syriacs" (the population, not the "Western Rite") is defined equivalently to adherents of the Jacobite or Western Rite. I have also seen claims that the term "Jacobite" is somehow considered "pejorative". Is this the case? Do we have any source supporting this? dab (𒁳) 10:30, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think I provided you with a source stating that Jacobite is a misnomer. More importantly, it's incorrect if you refer to all West Syriacs, which include the Syriac Catholics (and a few Protestants). Jacob Baradaeaus was one of the people who laid the foundation of the Syriac Orthodox Church organization. Therefore, West Syriacs is the correct term, Jacobites only refers to the Syriac Orthodox. --Benne ['bɛnə] _(talk) 10:45, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

population

the numbers from quotable sources collected at adherents.com add up to just below 300,000. I suppose this is a low estimate, but I have no idea what an upper estimate would be. The upper limit for "Christians and other" in Syria given by the CIA Factbook is 500,000. Even if we assue that most of these are Syrian Jacobites, we'll still be below one million in total. Perhaps a reasonable estimate would be 0.5 to 1 million. dab (𒁳) 11:24, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mm, it's hard to find quotable reliable sources about this. I would estimate the total population to more like 800-1000k. Lets say there are 400-500k in Syria, in Europe we have 80k in Sweden, 50k in Germany, I would guess on around 100k in Holland, Belgium, France, Switzerland, Austria, Luxemburg and the rest of the countries around there. Then there are Turkey, Lebanon, US... The TriZ (talk) 17:19, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Title of article

I think Syriac-Aramean people is a more appropriate title of the article. Nobody today calls themselves Jacobite and scholars don't use Jacobite as a reference to the group anymore either. Where Aramean is used by some of the Church's followers. Chaldean (talk) 01:49, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

User dachman does not have any knowledge in that area. He have ruined all articles and created titles like Jacobites. VegardNorman (talk) 15:50, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Typical dab; moving pages only wikly bases making a mockery out of our people. He creates all these different pages, redirects going everywhere, and the title is still not correct. What aboutg Syriac Orthodox people of Iraq? They certianly are not West Syriacs, but rather East Syriacs. I still think Syriac-Aramean people is still the right title. Chaldean (talk) 13:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

West and East is about the historical frontier between the Byzantine and Persian Empires. If I remember correctly, the Syriacs Orthodox in Iraq have moved there at a later stage, but still would be considered West Syriacs. Cf. West Syrian Rite vs. East Syrian Rite. --Benne ['bɛnə] _(talk) 15:45, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No Benne, they are converts of Church of the East. They certianly did not just move there, as there are many historical Syriac Orthodox monasteries that date back to well over 1000 years old. They don't speak Turoyo, but a more similar dialect as Chaldeans-Assyrians within the area. Chaldean (talk) 17:54, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Move the article?

How many is positive for moving the article into new title "Syriac people" ? VegardNorman (talk) 23:27, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I still think Syriac-Aramean people is more appropriate, since there are those within the group whom consider themselves Aramean. Chaldean (talk) 00:35, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

i think Syriac people would be the best title. do you agree? VegardNorman (talk) 20:37, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't mind it, but the important thing right now should be working on the article. Your doing a good job, keep up the good work and watch out for those spelling mistakes. Chaldean (talk) 20:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Im trying working as much as i can on the article. Also trying to work on article Assyrian people. My english isnt very good but im trying my best. VegardNorman (talk) 20:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

no. "Syriac people" is ambiguous and just adds to the confusion. I don't mind if you move it to "Syriac/Aramaeans", "Jacobite Syriacs" or what have you, but not to unqualified "Syriac people": this will just perpetuate the problem, the misunderstandings of scope and the edit warring. --dab (𒁳) 19:55, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What about "Syriac/Aramaean people" ? VegardNorman (talk) 17:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

90,000 in Baghdad?

This figure does not add up; Baghdad was thoroughly destroyed by Hulagu Khan. When Timur attacked Baghdad, it had only 20,000 people killed, according to the Timur article, "After the capture of the city, 20,000 of its citizens including Muslims were massacred". I am not using this as a reference, but considering how people like to inflate numbers (especically since 1.5 million + several thousand minorities does not equal 3.5 million total) and looking at this incosistency, I must reject this fanciful claim of 90,000 Christians in Baghdad. I mean, come on people, most cities at the time had less than 90,000 people and to clam that there were 90,000 Christians? Despite being heavily destroyed by Hulagu? Hulagu's destruction of Baghdad, whilst occured ages ago, was not repaired. Tourskin (talk) 04:10, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Muhammad Shamsaddin Megalommatis

In regards of using this as a source: 1. First of all, buzzle.com is a website that lets anyone to write articles about anything. In this specific article, Megalomatis does not cite not one source as a reference to the numbers or to anything for hte matter of fact. 2. How credible is this guy when he suggested in putting Iraqi Sunni Arabs in Concentration camps and forcing them to learn Aramaic? [[2]]. Chaldean (talk) 15:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Circular references

I have removed the citations to http://www.spiritus-temporis.com ... That site is not reliable as a reference in Wikipedia, as it uses Wikipedia for its information. Blueboar (talk) 12:22, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bad Sources

I see a number of references to http://adherents.com/ -- which doesn't appear to be a reliable source. The history bit bizarrely seems to be based on a Latter Day Saints web site, http://scriptures.lds.org http://www.spiritus-temporis is also still in the references. None of these are reliable sources. There seems to be almost nothing sourced from contemporary scholarship.--Doug Weller (talk) 19:51, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Population numbers

I really think the 4 million total population number is beyond from reality. If there even were 4 million, where do they live? I have recentally changed Lebanon from 900,000 to 37,000 since that is what the source says. Discuss please. Chaldean (talk) 13:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac are atleast 3.3-4 million but the article is describing only the aramean-syriac.. atleast 50-60 % of the syriav group are selv identified as Western Assyrians or assyrian-syriac.. The Western Syriacs (Assyrian-Aramean) are maybe approx 1 million --WestAssyrian (talk) 13:50, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, this article isn't just about those who call themselves Aramean, but all Middle Eastern members of the Syriac Orthodox/Catholic Churches (be it those who call themselves Aramean, Assyrian, or Syriac.) Those in India are not part of this article. Chaldean (talk) 13:54, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You have right Chaldean the article is about all Middle Eastern members of the Syriac Orthodox/Catholic Churches (be it those who call themselves Aramean, Assyrian, or Syriac.) but ArameanSyriac must be neutral and describe the assyrian-syriac, syriacs, armaean-syriac in his article! what do you suggest we can do? --WestAssyrian (talk) 14:05, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please lets discuss one issue at a time. First the population numbers. Chaldean (talk)

Same goes for the Assyrian people article. There aren't 3.3-4 million Assyrians (and that CIA source, doesn't say much). And there aren't 4 million Aramean-Syriacs either. However, the majority of the Western Syriacs is no doubt Aramean-Syriacs whatever WesternAssyrian may say.

Okey.. the population number of the Syriacs cant be more then 1 million.. Sweden: 60-80, Germany: 50-100 Holland: 30 USA: 30-50 Syria: 700 Iraq: ?? Turkey: 3-15 I dont think there is more maybe in Belgien, Swizer, France but the Syriacs arent so many in those country --WestAssyrian (talk) 14:23, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How can you prove it?? that the aramean-syriac are the majoriy?? there are atleast 50-60 % Assyrian-Syriacs we are many Assyrians in the syriac group --WestAssyrian (talk) 14:24, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the 3-4 million in the Assyrian people page is misleading as well, but we need to discuss that in that page. We have lots of work to do. I hope you guys now can start to work with each other. Chaldean (talk) 14:26, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chaldean the population number in the Assyrian people is right because the article are describing the Western Syriacs, Chaldeans and the East Assyrians.. We are in the article mention all the groups --WestAssyrian (talk) 14:31, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But even if you add those numbers, its not 3-4 million, by far. Anyways back to this topic;

Syria 710,000 [3]
Turkey 15,000 - 25,000 [4] [5][6]
Iraq 92,700 [7][8]
Lebanon 37,000 [9]
Jordan 70,000 [10]
Israel 50,000 [citation needed]
Diaspora
United States 80,000 [11][12][13]
Sweden 80,000 [14][15]
Germany 50,000 [16] [17]
Netherlands 30,000
Switzerland 10,000
Egypt 8,000 [18]

If you add these, you get 1.2 million approx. Nothing close of 3-4 million. And there is problems with some as well - the 80000 in United States is misleading, as that is a number for all Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac people, not just Syriacs. Chaldean (talk) 14:34, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thats right! you can change the aramean-syriac article and rewrite approx 1 million --WestAssyrian (talk) 14:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Revision as of 14:38, 15 May 2008 edit Chaldean (talk \| contribs) Extended confirmed users 14,990 edits →‎Population numbers ← Previous edit		Revision as of 14:38, 15 May 2008 edit undo WestAssyrian (talk \| contribs) 410 edits →‎Population numbers Next edit →
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	If you add these, you get 1.2 million approx. Nothing close of 3-4 million. And there is problems with some as well - the 80000 in United States is misleading, as that is a number for all [[Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac]] people, not just Syriacs. [[User:Chaldean\|Chaldean]] ([[User talk:Chaldean\|talk]]) 14:34, 15 May 2008 (UTC)		If you add these, you get 1.2 million approx. Nothing close of 3-4 million. And there is problems with some as well - the 80000 in United States is misleading, as that is a number for all [[Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac]] people, not just Syriacs. [[User:Chaldean\|Chaldean]] ([[User talk:Chaldean\|talk]]) 14:34, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

			Thats right! you can change the aramean-syriac article and rewrite approx 1 million --[[User:WestAssyrian\|WestAssyrian]] ([[User talk:WestAssyrian\|talk]]) 14:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)