Talk:Battle of Lebedyn

Conditions of Ukrainian Victory

If Russian forces are no where near the town right now, what are the conditions under which it will be considered a Ukrainian victory? If not now, what will warrent the classification? Wolf359Locutus (talk) 23:08, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

This is incredibly late, so sorry. But anyway, the Russians retreated from the Northern areas of Ukraine, and they didn't hold Lebedyn. Dawsongfg (talk) 14:54, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Battle of Kherson which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:23, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I propose a merge of the encyclopedic content of Battle of Lebedyn to Northern Ukraine campaign.

The relationship of most of the villages mentioned here to Lebedyn is one of pure geography. No other source has interpreted the information that appears here collectively and termed it the "battle of Lebedyn". My Google search for the exact string, performed on 21 May 2024, returns only a single use by a reliable source (1 2), a local newspaper from an island in the state of Washington writing about a resident with roots in Lebedyn. The sentence A few inconsequential military clashes are known as the “Battle of Lebedyn.” seems to indicate WP:CIRCULAR sourcing to Wikipedia.

Regarding the content itself, perhaps the information on troop movements and occupation of villages will prove useful on the target page in helping us understand what was going on in parts of Sumy Oblast during this month, though I am not sure if the information regarding the humanitarian convoys and the details of the shelling of Lebedyn is independently notable enough to warrant mentioning in any particular article. Pinging @Cinderella157 for suggestions here.

SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 21:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

• In the context of this war, this is pretty much a regurgitation of routine news reporting (ie nothing particularly notable). Reporting of occupation by a column of tanks on 5 March is a misrepresentation of the source. I removed it. Even after some trimming, a lot of content is loosely connected to Lebedyn - referring to several villages such as Kerdylivshchyna, about 7 km from Lebedyn. This is clearly not an independently notable event but a non-event. The article on Lebedyn already covers the shelling adequately . There might be some material useful to the target article but more in a general sense, rather than specific to Lebedyn. The humanitarian corridor is already adequately mentioned in the target. Not much to do here. Cinderella157 (talk) 10:15, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose — Overall campaigns/offensive articles should briefly summarize each battle, while the battle articles should focus on the minor details. This article has over 17,000 bytes worth of content, so I do not support the merge of this. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 07:59, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

  Your point is well taken, but I don't anticipate that most of those bytes will be merged into the target article. Will provide a detailed breakdown of what content I think should go where in a follow-up message for your consideration. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 08:50, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose: This battle although part of a wider campaign is noteworthy enough to be a standalone article

Waleed (talk) 08:27, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

What battle? SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 14:56, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

Is the page merging still going on? Just wondering about its status. Tomissonneil (talk) 06:28, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

Consensus will have to be achieved before any merge. As you can see above, I had planned on delineating which information would be retained in a merge, in order to address the concerns of an opposed editor, but have not had the time to do so. Thank you for the reminder. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 16:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

If it helps, I agree that the pages should be merged. None of the engagements didn’t occur in the town, rather they were scattered around Sumy oblast. Tomissonneil (talk) 02:40, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support The only information in the timeline section that actually discusses attacks on the city is information about shelling, which is expanded upon in the shelling and airstrikes section, but shelling alone does not constitute stand alone notability. The section on the occupation of villages near Lebedyn is not part of the battle. The section on the humanitarian corridors is only partly focused on Lebedyn (more focused on Sumy Oblast in general), and not part of the battle. I would suggest merging some of the information on shelling and airstrikes to the Northern Ukraine campaign article, the information about the occupation of villages to the Russian occupation of Sumy Oblast article, and either move the information on the humanitarian corridors to an article like Humanitarian impacts of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, or remove it entirely. Gödel2200 (talk) 16:41, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

  @WeatherWriter As the opposed editor in this discussion your thoughts on this proposal are welcome. Merging different sections of this article to three different pages seems like a reasonable compromise for the size concerns you described in June. SaintPaulOfTarsus (talk) 05:32, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

OPPOSE As per above. 58.152.51.71 (talk) 14:47, 16 August 2024 (UTC)