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Authorised Firearms Officer/Archive 1 (28 January - 14 August)

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Check out this picture:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Police.gun.1.london.arp.jpg

If you get it up to high resolution, you will see the trigger group--a removable, exchangeable part--only has a white rectangle with a bullet in it ("safe") and a red rectangle with a single bullet in it (semiautomatic). This is a later model trigger group (early ones had markings that said "S E F" or "safe, semiauto, and auto" in German.)

If you go here: http://www.hkpro.com/mp5.htm and scroll down.

The second picture down (on the white background) shows an MP5 submachine gun. Notice that the weapon has four positions: The white single bullet, the red single bullet, three red bullets in a box, and five bullets in an open-ended box. This trigger system is easily replaceable in the types used by the British Police and this system fires semi-automatically, a counted three-round-burst, and fully automatic. Ergo, a submachine gun.

Changing these two groups out is essentially: clearing the weapon, popping out the rear pin, removing the buttstock, pulling the trigger group down and out, replacing the trigger group by hooking it over a piece at the rear of the magazine well, rocking it up into place, replacing the pin and stock.

That's all.

I mean, if you want to ignore the info, go ahead. *shrug*

Deathbunny (talk) 04:55, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See my edit summary, but the British police do not fully automatic weapons, and because of this they are designated by the police as "semi-automatic carbines", as "semi-automatic machine gun" contradicts itself, because it cant be a machine gun if it fires semi. Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs)☺ 16:53, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly! But it does not change the fact that the weapons are converted from SMG's to make them semi-auto carbines.

I think it's important to point out because people will otherwise assume that the MP5 is a submachine gun and NOT a semi-auto carbine and that you are wrong unless you explicitly point it out.

So, the designation is based on the function and use and not on the design or origin of the weapons.

Deathbunny (talk) 08:20, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and you are inconsistent by capitalizing "Pistol" after Glock.

Deathbunny (talk) 08:22, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I never mentioned the difference between the origin classification, and the British police one because you did not mention this before. I have no problem with you making that. Also before we go further you may like to read here, and concerning the capitalisation of pistol after Glock, was your point just that I capitalised it? Police,Mad,Jack (talk · contribs)☺ 09:41, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On the capitalization, it was just that you had Pistol capitalized there and in the picture caption and nowhere else. I thought--for usage and consistency--it looked better lower case. Also, I think the resulting edit works. It makes explicit that the MP5's used are modified submachine guns that are not used or able to be used as such by individual officers. I used self-loading in lieu of semiautomatic because of other Brit usages.

I'm happy we got this fixed without any real acrimony. Deathbunny (talk) 18:25, 1 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dispute over claimed British police use of "machine guns"

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I'm having a bit of a dispute over at Talk:Death of Ian Tomlinson over the inclusion of an erroneous press report that the Met's Territorial Support Group has access to "submachine guns" as opposed to the actual semi-automatic MP5 carbines used by AFOs in the unit (which does not have any Specialist Firearms Officers attached to it). Other editors may wish to offer their opinion on the matter. Nick Cooper (talk) 09:52, 13 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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