Talk:Canoe paddle strokes

Why does this article exist?

Why does this article exist? It just copied a section from an article that needs this material and covered it well and was not overly long. And it has only one reference. Possibly it should get deleted? North8000 (talk) 22:35, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

The large block about paddle strokes was (is?!) unnecessarily detailed for the Canoe article (which is at the size that splitting should be considered - e.g. to help readers with limited bandwidth etc). DexDor (talk) 19:16, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Given the fact that there are so much mistakes and debatable content in this article, deleting it would probably be a good idea, because it is impossible to edit the drawings to correct them. I could contribute new ones, like this [1], but once contributed they cannot be edited anymore too... Kanoniem (talk) 10:08, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Problems with stroke diagrams

If somebody has source for the diagrams, I'd appreciate it if you could make appropriate correction; otherwise I'll do it. I probably have the tools to do it somewhere.

The "Goon" stroke diagram needs to show an outward pry at the end of the stroke, which is where the counter-turn is powered.

All of the strokes where a draw is done at the start of the stroke show the initial draw in the wrong position. The initial draw must take place ahead of the center thwart, not at the center thwart, in order to turn the canoe. So stroke path needs to be moved forward for the following strokes: Pitch stroke, Indian stroke/Canadian J, C stroke. (The sweep diagram is correct already). It might be worth mentioning that these strokes can't be used when paddling tandem, because you have be sitting close to the middle of the canoe in solo position in order to execute them.

The description and diagram for the running pry are incorrect. To execute a running pry (also called a jam pry), the blade of the paddle is jammed forward of the center thwart, and angled under the belly of the canoe in order to produce a very rapid turn. It's an expert stroke that's infamous for dumping the canoe very quickly if executed incorrectly. (References: A youtube video, A google books reference or preferrably a better, more permanent link that should be easy to find with a bit of googling). You may want to add a hanging draw as well as a common stroke.

 rerdavies (talk) 22:41, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Missing stroke

When I went canoeing every weekend in the summer there was an additional maneuver the bow paddler did to steer in an emergency. It was used if the bow paddler saw an obstruction in the water in the next few feet. The bow paddler can make an emergency turn. To turn to the right the bow paddler would brace his paddle against the left side of the bow pointing to the right. It would look something like this:

   x     ← obstruction
    /    ← paddle
   /\    ← bow 
  /  \
 | O  |  ← front paddler
 |    |
 |    |  ← canoe
 |    |
 |  O |  ← rear paddler
  \  /
   \/    ← stern

The bow paddler usually held onto his paddle with only one (left) hand.

A left turn can (of course) be effected by reversing the maneuver.

This was the fastest way to turn the boat. Spikesdad (talk) 03:11, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

I think you are refering to what I would call a bow-jam, also called a bow-pry or jam-pry? Jamesmcmahon0 (talk) 14:46, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

References

Dubious

Canoe_paddle_strokes#Switch_sides_often_method

 This method is the fastest one on flat water and is used by all marathon canoeists in the US and Canada.

This is a bold claim and would need a very reliable source like an in depth study of all possible techniques along with a marked consensus on categorization of all paddling methods, but the claim that this method "is used by all marathon canoeists..." is problematic and likely false because there is a very good chance that there exists people who could be identified (or self-identify) as "marathon canoeists" (ancient or modern) who's paddling method is not precisely described by this section. This could still include those that might use a very similar method (i.e. one that includes paddling on both lateral sides) but has some unique element unto itself (e.g. to the pace and commands of a voyageur chantey, &c.) --anon (talk) 08:23, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Several aspects

@Why_does_this_article_exist? - it seem to not only be copied, but moved from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canoe#Paddle_strokes section. Article exists, but section there doesn't exist any more, and deletion of this article with contents moved from there (even if this is not perfect yet) would lose all info on paddle stroke types at canoeing.

Also, in general it would be good if a mechanism existed - or if exists, used - to foreward external links to no-more-existing/moved section of canoe article to the now-here-moved contents.

@List_of_paddle_strokes -

This section probably needs a sentence of introduction stating left side of graphics is prow (forward part), right side stern (aft part), top starboard (right side) and bottom port (left sice) of canoe; the leftside polygon on graphics is the position of prow paddler and the rigtside or stern paddler. When someone is novice - or ignorant - to paddling reading graphics as it is can be baffling. Possibly this could be clarified by including this graphics from hull design section of canoe article (possible with links back to original section)

1 Bow, 2 Stern, 3 Hull, 4 Seat, 5 Thwart, 6 Gunwale, 7 Deck, 8 Yoke

With that - or modified existing or added graphics like this, to clear that - some text, e.g.

(The graphic is not clear whether it shows a bow or solo paddler making this stroke.) 

etc., can be omitted.

It would also be good to be made clear the first two described, "foreward" and "reverse stroke", seem to refer only or mostly to bow paddler when tandem paddling.

@general

The article was useful for me - I got idea of some strokes I didn't use, or wasn't aware I  used so I didn't perfect - but is neither clear enough, nor exhaustive, yet. There are different multiple paddler configurations, not only single and tandem, as mentioned here;  and there are very probably different - and useful - strokes for general whitewater and probably different aspects of competition (which I am not familiar enough with to propose), but if this additional possible information stays to form this one article, it should probalbly be reorganized, the now existing contents maybe to become the general part, and possible differences for different canoeing purposes and environments, or crew configurations, added as sections. Marjan Tomkiewicz 188.230.129.138 (talk) 12:31, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

Many good ideas there. I'll implement some when I get time, unless someone else beats me to it. But I didn't understand your points in your first couple paragraphs. Sincerely, North8000 (talk) 20:05, 29 October 2018 (UTC)