Talk:Dalmeny

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I was the one who posted the edit on the etymology of Dalmeny, in hindsight starting a discussion would have been a more appropriate way to proceed. The information came from consulting Angus MacDonald's Placenames of West Lothian and Stuart Harris' The Placenames of Edinburgh: Their Origin and History. Older forms of the name Dalmeny include Dumanie and Dunmayne and similar formulations, with the Dal- prefix a relatively recent addition. The name may have been changed by allegory with other placenames in the area (am trying to get copies of the above texts for confirmation).Since the Dun- prefix can be both Gaelic or Cumbric, it seems best to leave the exact origin open. The form Dun Maynie - Stone Fort is an appropriate name as the remains of an iron age fort found on Craigie Hilll indicated a stone construction, relatively unusual in the area. It may be that the name Dalmeny, previously referred to a wider area, as is sometimes indicated on older maps.

Hope this clears things up,

Michael S86.151.231.238 10:02, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

It is possible, but "Maynie" would still be an anglicisation of Brythonic, rather than a Brythonic form.--MacRusgail 19:10, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I take your point. I will try and find the reconstructed form used in the original reference.

Michael SMichael j d shaw 13:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Dalmeny etymology[edit]

Dalmeny is first recorded in 1180 as "Dumanie"; the first mention of a dal- element comes in 1662 where it is referred to as Dunmanie alias Dalmanie. In The Celtic Placenames of Scotland W.J. Watson suggests a meaning of "stone fort" deriving from a Brythonic placename. Welsh Din Meini would be a modern cognate. I think this is far more plausible than a reference to an obscure saint, especially considering archeological records of stone fortifications on Craigie Hill.

195.137.57.132 18:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

The previous comment was mine, apologies for not signing properly. -Michael j d shaw 18:33, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Michael, Scotland (and most of the other so called Celtic countries) are littered with the names of obscure saints - in Edinburgh, for example there are several wells devoted to people you've likely never heard of (and I've barely heard of). In modern Welsh it would be "DinAS Meini" probably - but they never spoke "Welsh" here as such, but Brythonic, which was the ancestor of Welsh, Cornish and Breton. --MacRusgail 12:18, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I take your point on the saint's names and I am aware at how widespread they are as a naming element. In quoting a Welsh cognate I was following Watson's approach, since any Brythonic form would have to be a reconstructed form (as would any original Gaelic form). If the name is Gaelic, it would still have to be Dun Mheinnidh. While Fort of saint Eithne would be perfectly reasonable, it is a less convincing dervation than Stone Fort. The very nature of this subject means that we cannot say for sure what the origin is. What we should consider is including both derivations in the entry.

Michael j d shaw 12:11, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, include both etymologies - that's the sensible way to go. --MacRusgail 15:41, 18 June 2007 (UTC)