Talk:Dutch courage

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Misc

I became curious about the origin of the expression "Dutch courage" after seeing someone use it on a website I frequent. I found several different explanations and still have no idea which one, if any, is correct. But this is certainly the most interesting explanation.

Autarch Severian — Preceding unsigned comment added by Autarch Severian (talk • contribs) 04:35, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, Dutch courage came from the time of the plagues. When England was engulfed in the black death, the Dutch were the only people brave enough to sail to the English coast and do trading. The way the trading was done, involved the English placing trading goods on the beach, then they would retreat end the Dutch would go on shore and pick up the trade goods in exchange leave their trade goods. The man that was brave enough to go on shore got drunk, as they thought that it would protect them from the black death.

I have to say that I can not say if the story is true, but it is a nice one.

Scubafish

More specifically: during an alliance with the Dutch, English soldiers noticed the practice of drinking a tot of gin (jenever) at stand-to and before battle. Gin was introduced to Britain after this time. Martin Doherty 16:43, 9 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding is that it comes from the Black Death. The Dutch ships were the only ones brave enough to sail into London during the plague. They were responsible for bringing in wines from the continent, therefore when people toasted they drank to the "Dutch Courage".

As a reward Dutch ships were later given "free port entry" to London.

24.22.73.41 02:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC) As an American, my colloquial understanding of the word "Dutch" is quite the opposite of that stated here. We associate the term "Dutch" reflexively with "good". Note the term "it beats the Dutch". In England "Dutch" may be synonymous with "bad", but in colloquial American the term is strongly positive.[reply]

24.22.73.41 02:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In the UK we don't generally attribute any meaning to "Dutch" other than from or of the Netherlands.Mnealon (talk) 04:20, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Removed from article page

Whilst studying at University I was required to do a literature research project on the "Perceived effects of alcohol, 1600-1800s." During this time I found numerous original newspaper articles citing the origin of the phrase "Dutch courage" relating to when the English and Dutch were at war.

The phrase was linked specifically to the difficulties English forces had in overcoming Dutch forces along the Dutch coast despite outnumbering the defending forces by a ratio of 3 to 1. The main reason for the ferocity of the Dutch forces was claimed to be due to their common bouts of drinking large amounts of gin and/or absinthe or other alcohol during battles. Hence, the term 'Dutch courage' being applied to the decreased sense of fear experienced by individuals when they have consumed alcohol.

I found no evidence during the research regarding the bravery of Dutch traders or sailors delivering goods to London during the plague. However there was a link between London, gin, and the Dutch. This link is best illustrated in the graphical works of William Hogarth, especially his drawings entitled "Mother Gin" and "Gin Lane". The Dutch link is that the downward spiral of English (London) society, as depicted by Hogarth, was associated with English soldiers returning from the wars with the Dutch (as mentioned above) and bringing gin and absinthe with them.

--Ich (talk) 18:41, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removed patent WP:BOLLOCKS

I've removed the following piece of unsourced (and untrue) original research. Please do not re-add it unless you can find a reliable source (which you won't) as it's patently untrue; not only were Britain and the Netherlands at war at the time of the Plague, but the earliest recorded use of the phrase was in 1826. And needless to say, the Dutch do not have "the freedom of the river". — iridescent 20:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

During the bubonic plague of London (1665), the city was sealed off to avoid contamination. This meant no food was permitted in. The only people willing to trade with London were the Dutch, who left food on jetties and then would take the money left there. They used to steel their nerves with liquor before landing on the plague-infested shores, hence "Dutch courage." To this day, the Dutch still have the freedom of the river Thames, which was granted as a reward for their courage and kindness.
Another possible etymology of the phrase comes from the origin of Gin. Gin (originally called jenever) was created by the Dutch, from whom it spread to England through returning soldiers. The popularity of gin became a social scourge, eventually leading to the Gin Act of 1751 and the pejorative use of the term.

Would have been very stupid of any Dutch ship to sail anywhere near England let alone into London, for many years before or after, seeing as England and Holland were constantly at War at this time.

^[1]

Gazza — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.154.109.13 (talk) 18:10, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anglo-Dutch_War

"Dutch"

In a number of these phrases (e.g. "Dutch uncle", etc.), "Dutch" actually meant Deutsch (i.e. German)... AnonMoos (talk) 00:16, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite of 84.249.3.82 's edits

I've rewritten the introductory material entered by 84.249.3.82 in an attempt to keep NPOV, and to emphasize the tentative nature of these unsourced additions. Citations showing that the Dutch navy or sailors were particularly feared for their courage would be necessary. There is also no indication that the meaning of the phrase originally referred to anything other than "liquid courage" - this should be cited before speculating further. I'd also suggest that placing this new paragraph before other theories smacks of impolitely trying to assert primacy, but haven't moved it. Grothmag (talk) 20:50, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Link to gin

Why is there no link of the word 'gin' to the Wikipedia article on gin? I would do it myself but I can't remember how (and too lazy to look it up, lying here on the couch like a giant beached porpoise, half asleep).
--Atikokan (talk) 04:26, 8 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Error in dates?

Dutch gin created in 1650 then used in The Thirty Years War (1618 - 1648)? Dstone1163 (talk) 13:48, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Another hypothesis for its origin

Is this site credible? It says, The Anglo-Dutch wars of the 17th and 18th centuries were acrimonious even by the usual standards of war. Following the conflicts the English came to hold the Dutch in very low regard and as a consequence there are numerous English phrases which portray them in an unflattering light, and goes on to describe the phrase as meaning that courage gained by intoxication isn't genuine. --Dan Wylie-Sears 2 (talk) 05:27, 1 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anglo-Dutch_War

[1]