Talk:Ethnic minorities in Czechoslovakia

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Neutrality and Disputed statement[edit]

Neutrality is definitely not postcard: "Czech culture - The barbaric toppling of the Maria Theresa statue in Bratislava"
This is not Czech culture.

Masaryk on Slovaks[edit]

In 1921, the President of Czechoslovakia, Tomáš Garrigue Masaryk, told in an interview to a French journalist of Le Petit Parisien: «There is no Slovak nation, it has been invented by Hungarian propaganda. The Czechs and Slovaks are brothers. They understand each other perfectly. All that separates them is the cultural level - the Czechs are more developed than the Slovaks, because the Magyars kept them in the dark. (...) In one generation there will be no difference between the two branches of our national family.» ref Tomáš G. Masaryk, Cesta demokracie II (The path of democracy), Prague, 134, p.78-79, full quotation translated in: Elisabeth Bakke, «The Making of Czechoslovakism in the First Czechoslovak Republic», p.35 n22, in: Martin Schulze Wessel (ed.), Loyalitäten in der Tschechoslowakischen Republik 1918–1938. Politische, nationale und kulturelle Zugehörigkeiten, Munich, R. Oldenbourg Verlag, 2004; however the interview is nowhere to be found in the scanned full archives of Le Petit Parisien/ref

His famous sentences are supposed to come from an interview with Le Petit Parisien in septembre 1921, the exact date varies according to the sources, 14 or 21. Actually, this interview is nowhere to be found in the scanned full archives of Le Petit Parisien. This is highly surprising because it is quoted in several scientific articles, but always from his book, the second tome of "The road to democracy". --Minorities observer (talk) 14:27, 14 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe that is not a full archive. They had to have a proper source about the interview. Those are academic sources.Fakirbakir (talk) 18:21, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is no use adding second source references: the quote comes from Masaryk's memoirs, a 1934 volume. You just added references that quote Masaryk's memoirs, which are already quoted. Moeover, there is no indication whatsoever that the scanned archives of Le Petit Journal are not complete. I discussed this with a specialized scholar who answered me "There must be a mix-up somehow. According to Cesta democracie II, published in 1934, the interview in which the excerpt appeared was published in the Paris daily on September 14th 1921 under the title "Une heure chez Masaryk". The journalist was a Richepierre. Cesta democracie is an edition of Masaryk's speeches etc. Probably Masaryk did not do the mix-up, but more likely the editor (Vasil K. Škrach) or the translator. The interview was translated from French to Czech.". --Minorities observer (talk) 19:42, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I added additional references because you had removed Masaryk's part of the section.[1]. Actually, academic sources should not be removed. However I see the problem in connection with this quote. Fakirbakir (talk) 19:49, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hungarians section[edit]

As there is already an article Hungarians in Slovakia, including sections on the CZ period, the section in this article should just summarize its content, not taking the opportunity of a lesser-watched article to instillate propaganda (for either side). --Minorities observer (talk) 19:44, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is well sourced section, maybe it deserves an own article (as "new Czechoslovak control of the former Hungarian lands" or something like this) in my opinion. Those questioned sentences in the section sound propagandistic, but unfortunately they are facts. The page of Hungarians in Slovakia is already too long and these infos are not found there (not duplicated).Fakirbakir (talk) 19:54, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is not at all a section about Hungarians as an ethnic minority but about the former ruling power and its symbols in the new state. The sources you quote are very clear on this matter. Apart from the last paragraph, the rest of the section has nothing to do in an article about ethnic minorities, but with the Hungary-Czekoslovakia relations. I moved most parts of the section to Magyarization into a new section "Demagyarization in Czechoslovakia". --Minorities observer (talk) 21:05, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You suggest to write about Demagyarization in the article about Magyarization? It does not belong there!!! It would be like writing about birth in the article about death. To make an analogy, there is nothing about the Degermanization of East Prussia in the article about Germanization Alabalaprotocabala (talk) 21:20, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This Alabala editor comes out of nowhere: this contribution was their 2nd edit. I have reverted their edits since they were huge and required consensus. Drmies (talk) 21:38, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This Minorities observer moved a huge paragraph to another article, before a consensus, we must go back to previous version [2], per WP:STATUSQUO Alabalaprotocabala (talk) 22:04, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have created a new page about that section (Demagyarization in Czechoslovakia).Fakirbakir (talk) 22:10, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
My proposal is to create an article named De-magyarization (I see this is the common form [[3]) that would put together also information about Serbianisation and Romanianization Alabalaprotocabala (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:21, 28 April 2012 (UTC).[reply]

I think it is a good idea. We could move that new page and call it "De-magyarization" instead of the current one "Demagyarizaton in Czechoslovakia".Fakirbakir (talk) 22:30, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

However, this content perfectly fits into page of Slovakization. I think that will be the best solution of this debate (and not a new page).Fakirbakir (talk) 23:36, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

tensions vs. minorities[edit]

This article intended to deal with specifically ethnic tensions between Czechoslovakian ethnic groups. According to the new title we should write a short summary about minorities and leave the more detailed versions of their history to the appropriate pages of Czechoslovakian minorities, however this is in contrast to the original intention. Fakirbakir (talk) 21:23, 28 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The intention of the title change was to realign the article on the series of similar existing articles, "Ethnic minorities in X". The history of interwar Czechoslovakia is as a whole a story of ethnonational conflicts, some as consequences from the past (magyarization and germanization before 1914), some as consequences of the post-WWI borders drawing. They cannot be separated from the "main" Czechoslovak history, there should be more about this in the "purely" Czechoslovak pages (History, 1st Republic). And also more on the real policies on the local level, e.g. the (non-?)application of the linguistic rights etc. I also think there should be more on Romas, Poles and Silesians in this article. Also in the to-do list: the other ethnonational censuses (including post WWII), and % tables from these censuses, in order to make them more readable. A separate article on Religion in Czechoslovakia would also be interesting. --Minorities observer (talk) 06:20, 29 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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