Talk:Family tree of the Babylonian gods

VfD.

Talk:Babylonian_mythology.

To do:

• Template:Familytree

Concerns

I'm not sure why this is published and live as it is clearly wrong in many obvious ways. For example, Ea is Enki, yet listed as two people, while his half brother and sister - Ninhursag(f) or Enlil(m) - who made up the ruling three with Enki/Ea, are not listed at all. This is so far off being ready, it's virtually pointless it being live, sorry.Guy.shrimpton (talk) 12:08, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

"Primal Wasteland"

This article puts Tiamat, Apsu and Mummu as children of the "Primal Wasteland", which links to the page Chaos (cosmogony), which does not mention anything Mesopotamian.

Tiamat's page says: "She is the symbol of the chaos of primordial creation." "In the second Chaoskampf Tiamat is considered the monstrous embodiment of primordial chaos."

Enūma_Eliš#Tablet_1 says: "The tale begins before creation, when only the primordial entities Apsu and Tiamat existed, co-mingled together. There were no other things or gods, nor had any destinies been foretold." "When only the primordial entities Apsu and Tiamat existed" and "there were no other things or gods" I think warrant the deletion of this so called "Primal Wasteland".

Dave12121212 (talk) 02:33, 3 November 2021 (UTC)

Low quality research

I'll put it very bluntly: this article is basically someone's original fiction combining completely unrelated sources, published on wikipedia as if it was legitimate information. It shows low level of understanding of the material (Marduk and Asalluhi were not brothers, Asalluhi was absorbed into Marduk over the course of the second millennium to grant the later the prestigious position of a son of one of the main gods); Mummu's origin is not actually specified in Enuma Elish and Wilfred G. Lambert did not even consider it a possibility that he was a son of apsu and Tiamat in his final monograph on the matter (Babylonian Creation Myths, 2013), as far as I am aware; cosmogonic figures from the EE do not appear in the same sequence elsewhere (as a matter of fact, Tiamat and Apsu are hardly present anywhere else period) and do not represent some universal standard of Mesopotamian theology (not in Babylon and especially not in other cities - how does Tiamat fit into the incantation labeling Irhan as "father of all the gods"? How does she fit into the "Enlil theogony" from An-Anum with over 20 generations of Enlil's ancestors?), and in particular there is, to my knowledge, no source which combines the first millennium BCE idea of Marduk as Nabu's father with Marduk's grandiose EE genealogy. In fact, Nabu's absence from EE is crucial for dating it since there is only a very brief period during which a work where Marduk is already more than just a tutelary god of a major city but Nabu has yet to achieve much nototeity

Of course, trying to present a single uniform family tree of Mesopotamian deities (hard to talk about specifically "Babylonian" gods other than Marduk, Nabu, Sarpanit and a few oddities like Marduk's dogs) is a foolish pursuit in the first place, because especially in the case of minor ones, established genealogies either did not exist (not even one document ever refers to anyone as a parent of Aya, for instance) or could vary. Even major gods were not entirely free for this phenomenon, judging from Nergal appearing as a brother of Nabu and Lugal-marada in a letter from Marad from the neo-Babylonian period, or from the various origins ascribed to Nanaya or Ninazu, both of them major deities, not some obscure footnote in history. And that's without getting into the world of poorly defined divine ancestors from god lists, such as Enmesharra or Lugaldukuga.

This article either needs to be deleted or fully rewritten. HaniwaEnthusiast (talk) 11:55, 23 April 2022 (UTC)